Homosexuality Is Not an ‘Abomination’

In an amusing turnaround for DUP MP Iris Robinson, wife of the new Northern Irish First Minister Peter Robinson, following a complaint by Gay and Lesbian Across Down (GLAD), she is to be investigated by police for hate speech. Presumably in her radio interview she thought that being a Christian made her immune from consequences for her insensitive, crass, borderline mad and seemingly hateful response to the news of the brutal homophobia attack on Stephen Scott in Newtonabbey (discussed in a previous post). GLAD’s coordinator Andrew Muir said:

‘They were reluctant to pursue the matter until I told them it was covered by the hate crimes legislation and I would not be leaving until they took a statement from me.’

Good for him. Is she allowed to be homophobic privately? Yes. Is she allowed to hold those opinions on ‘religious grounds’? Yes. But the day she starts to promote them is when she crosses a line with the law, and using the increasingly familiar ‘I’m religious so I’m allowed an opt out’ refrain just won’t wash. What she said in addition to the quotes from my previous post was:

Stephen Nolan: Do you think for example that homosexuality is disgusting?

Iris Robinson: Absolutely

Stephen Nolan: Do you think that homosexuality should be loathed?

Iris Robinson: Absolutely

Stephen Nolan: Do you think it is right for people to have a physical disgust towards homosexuality?

Iris Robinson: Absolutely

Stephen Nolan: Does it make you nauseous?

Iris Robinson: Yes

Stephen Nolan: Do you think that it is something that is shamefully wicked and vile?

Iris Robinson: Yes, of course it is, it’s an abomination.

It makes her claim to want to balance out condemning violence against the gay community with expressing her ‘religious beliefs’ completely bogus. Thankfully her colleague Caitriona Ruane, Sinn Fein Education Minister, phoned in to complain, maintaining:

“I think it is really important that politicians play a leadership role and that leadership role should be not to say anything that could possibly inflame the situation or cause further distress.”

She went on to say that all politicians should be guided by equality legislation, but Robinson wouldn’t have any of it, insisting:

“My Christian beliefs teach me that you love the sinner but hate the sin.

“But homosexuality is something that is an abomination.”

The Coalition on Sexual Orientation later complained:

“We are deeply concerned at these comments. We believe that the comments are at best damaging and at worst dangerous. Furthermore, they are completely unacceptable — indeed an abomination — in pursuance of an inclusive society based on values of dignity, respect and equality.”

Dr Phillip McGarry from the Royal College of Psychiatrists added his voice to the growing attacks on her comments about ‘turning’ gay people straight:

“People are born with sexual preference – that is a fact of life.

“Treatments that purport to change someone’s sexuality can be harmful and there is no evidence that they can be successful.”

Professor Michael King, also from the Royal College of Psychiatrists said:

“There is a lot of evidence going back 50 years to suggest that attempts to change people’s sexuality in either direction are not possible.

“Such treatments do not work and can actually cause quite a lot of harm. Homosexuality is a state and a sexual orientation and is not a question of behaviour.”

Robinson’s pet doctor disagrees however – it’s not surprising considering he’s also a ‘born again’ Christian. Dr Paul Miller says:

“First, no one is born gay because gay identity is a complex interaction between genetics and environment; second, no one chooses to experience who they are sexually attracted to; and thirdly, change in sexual orientation is possible.”

Dr Miller cited a study by American psychiatrists Stanton Jones and Mark Yarhouse which he said concluded that people can change sexual orientation and that the process of change was not damaging.

“That was a very robust study because in the past, and rightly so, people who worked in this field were criticised for not having robust research.”

Robust research eh? A quick look at Jones & Yarhouse shows:

…we have also been concerned for the well-being of individuals who we know who struggle with homosexual orientation and who themselves receive very confusing messages from church and society about how they are to live their lives. Often, it is “science” that is given as the reason for advice that departs from the teachings of scripture.

Except of course it is all about science – we haven’t based our philosophy as a society on the ‘teachings of scripture’ since before the Enlightenment. Whilst science doesn’t tell us how to live our lives, it does tell us why we’re made as we are, and why we behave as we do. Whether or not you like that behaviour is another matter – morals aren’t absolute, they’re philosophically relative, but there is a scientific acceptance at least in the Western world that sexual orientation is inherent. To try to regulate it by instruction is neither desirable but it’s also not possible; using a static moral framework to mediate a relationship with the world will only fail in a world which constantly moves on. Jones & Yarhouse’s study was funded by Exodus International, an religious organisation dedicated to ‘curing’ gay people, and published by InterVarsity Press, a Christian publisher, and Exodus is run by Stanton Jones himself. Jim and Brenda Johnson are right – both organisations are preoccupied with passing off repackaged theology as science, much the way in which creationism and intelligent design are being passed off as a ‘challenge’ to evolution. Jones’ & Yarhouse’s claim that science is trying to subvert Church doctrine about homosexuality is also wrong however, neatly twisting the position of science into one it doesn’t have, providing a further suggestion that their study might be somewhat biased.

We can only wait and see whether the police take the complaints against Robinson seriously. And of course it’s clear that Miller was indeed a maverick and a fraud. Hopefully he will now be recognised as such. This whole affair has been yet another example of fundamentalist Christianity and hardcore theists trying to subvert the norms which have guided society for the last few hundred years, by attempting to twist their intolerance (and in Jones’ case self hatred) into a human right, and to present pseudo science as fact – much the way in which creationism and intelligent design are being heralded as some sort of legitimate challenge to evolution. The difficulty in arguing against these people is as true as with any theist: it’s all about belief for them – an absolute, unchanging position they don’t have to prove empirically. Fortunately the law is ever more clear that at least in public and professional life they must behave according to norms of equality, which have been tested empirically and have demonstrated that society operates more happily and effectively when people previously marginalised for difference are instead included. Worryingly though, the fundamentalist naysayers still inhabit positions of influence, and remain snapping at the heels of modern society.

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224 responses to “Homosexuality Is Not an ‘Abomination’

  1. I like your WordPress theme cosmodaddy, but you doctrine is seriously flawed my friend. It appears to be immersed in the ungodly and unrighteous sinful desires that bring down the wrath of God upon a society.

    My point for writing is not to try to change your mind concerning this prevailing wickedness, for this can only be done by the word of God and the Spirit of God, but to simply point out that you founded your position and grounded its arguments on nothing more than the opinions and thoughts from educated men and women. The problem cosmodaddy is this wisdom is nothing but foolishness and carries little weight when it comes to truth.

    One can only find proper spiritual direction in what God’s word says. I noticed that this platform was not even considered. Is there a reason for this? Are you interested in what the Word of God says about homosexuality or do you consider God to be a homophobe?
    malachi

  2. goodtimepolitics

    Dirty!

  3. Hopefully, the more attention drawn to outrageous homophobic statements by public persons; and holding them accountable, will continue those steps towards tolerance and eventual acceptance.

  4. @ BM – You and I operate on different paradigms of life, so there’s no point in discussing what ‘God’ might say about homosexuality or if ‘He’ is a homophobe or not. It’s also not the point of the post. I don’t and can’t object to people taking a religious viewpoint on life – our relationship with the world is always individual – the point of the blog however is when people use that religious viewpoint as a weapon. Society is not governed by scripture, it’s governed by the rule of law, and we are all equal before the law. If I am not allowed to promote hatred towards you for being a Christian, Iris Robinson is equally not allowed to promote hatred towards me as a gay man. There’s no ‘opt out’ clause just because you happen to follow one of many religions. She is (and indeed you are) allowed to think all sorts of terrible things about me for my sexual orientation, but using a position of power or influence to promote them is not ok.

    My opinions and thoughts are indeed based on the basis of science, fact and rationality; they’re based on what we know and don’t know, rather than on belief, which kept the world static in fear and ignorance for centuries. I’m not actually advocating a life without spirituality, as indeed mine is not. But spirituality is not uniquely found in organised religions, and desire indeed has significant drawbacks in our relationships with our selves and others.

  5. Thanks for your comments on my blog buddy. I think her comments were downright offensive in every way. She may have private thoughts but they should be kept private! I moved from N.Ireland to Merseyside 8 yrs ago but I am home a lot and I read a lot of the news back home. I was not surprised in anyway that she came out with these remarks as her and her party are completely prejudiced and racist anyway. But if she is allowed to ‘hate’ publicly then she should apologize publicly also. I am so so angry that she is getting away with this so easily. Politicians over here are slapped down publicly by their party leaders for coming out with such hateful comments. Now Jeffery donaldson is bleeting about freedom of speech. Of course freedom if speech is a good thing but hateful speech is not! She really should be stripped of her post. And as for BMs, comments I believe in god, but the god I believe in is a loving and caring god who welcomed everyone into his life. The god that I know isn’t hateful in any way nor did he ever promote hate or encourage anyone to hate anyone else. Didn’t Iris Robinson understand that in the bible????

  6. Brother Danny

    You hit the nail on the head Malachi. The Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.

    The God of the Bible is not only loving but He is holy and just and homosexuality is an abomination to Him no matter what you say. Your opinion with God is irrelevant. Open your eyes romach you are in deception and the devil is having free reign over you right now.

  7. The God of the Bible is not only loving but He is holy and just and homosexuality is an abomination to Him no matter what you say.

    Now you see if Iris Robinson had delivered a line like that we’d all have been LOLing for years to come…

  8. I called the Ulster constabulary today and lodged a police complaint also – I live in Wiltshire and went into my own local police station to lodge the complaint which has been forwarded on to Ulster Const.

    I should be on Radio Ulster tomorrow morning to give some alternative perspective on this homophobic hate monger of an excuse for an MP!

  9. How long before the name DUP becomes the short version of Duff Up Poofters??

  10. Jason, bearing in mind religious people can’t really be argued with logically because their beliefs are of such a nature that they cannot be examined – they just ‘are’: I think you did a great job in replying to Brother Malachi’s post, and I wholeheartedly agree with you.

  11. Brother Malachi, so often in life I hear similar bigotry from people who claim to have God on their side, but how did YOU reach the conclusion that homosexuality is a ‘prevailing wickedness’?

    By ‘homosexuality’ I assume you’re really talking about people who have anal sex? If so, i feel I must point out that this isn’t exclusive to homosexuals and if this is the nub of your stance, I’d respectfully suggest that it would be far more accurate to campaign against ‘anal sex’ rather than ‘homosexuality’. Homosexuality is far more than just physical arousal.

  12. [Statement by cosmodaddy]
    “@ BM – You and I operate on different paradigms of life, so there’s no point in discussing what ‘God’ might say about homosexuality or if ‘He’ is a homophobe or not.”

    Yes, cosomodaddy we do and I would not even begin to argue the point. One thing that I want to be clear is that I do not type with a condescending spirit. I know sometimes it is difficult to pick up demeanor when you are reading something that is posted. A judgmental spirit is not the intent.

    [Statement by cosmodaddy]
    “they’re based on what we know and don’t know, rather than on belief, which kept the world static in fear and ignorance for centuries.”

    If this is referring to the Holy Scriptures, I vehemently disagree. This book has been at the very core of what a society has found moral. Men and women have both lived and died by the words written upon its very pages. Strong men have made every attempt to shut its cover and silence its word,and yet to no avail. To say it has “kept the world static in fear and ignorance for centuries” is a foolish and very shallow statement at best, which you have every right to promote. It is your blog!

    [Statement by James]
    “bearing in mind religious people can’t really be argued with logically because their beliefs are of such a nature that they cannot be examined – they just ‘are’:”

    James your statement seems to be somewhat directional… you must be careful to haphazardly associate religion with truth. Religion can most definitely be argued with. There is much in religion that I oppose and denounce. A careful examination of the scriptures indicate that religion is the enemy of what God wants to do in an individual. In fact religion rejected and crucified His Son. These words are not embrased in churches across America, but study the word of God and ye shall understand what I am talking about.

    Though one can argue with religion, only a fool can argue with truth, and that an exercise in futility. So to argue with the word of God… one would just be wasting their time.

    [Question by James]
    “but how did YOU reach the conclusion that homosexuality is a ‘prevailing wickedness’?”

    The word of God.

    [Statement by James]
    “By ‘homosexuality’ I assume you’re really talking about people who have anal sex? If so, i feel I must point out that this isn’t exclusive to homosexuals and if this is the nub of your stance, I’d respectfully suggest that it would be far more accurate to campaign against ‘anal sex’ rather than ‘homosexuality’. Homosexuality is far more than just physical arousal.”

    James it seams your verbiage is semantics at its best. It is not the action that needs clarification but the heart that has lead to such action.

    For the sake of analogy we will stay with the activities of sex.

    Man brutally beats and rapes a woman.

    An adult has sex with a 5 year old child.

    A man has intercourse with a dog.

    What is the difference? One could dissect each activity and even find justification to some level of degree of acceptability, we see this evidence every day in our society. Now if we were to poll most all of America and posed these 3 activities, most would say they are all unacceptable actions. So what is the difference between them and homosexuality? Is there a difference?

    My contention is to forget the action and look deeper. It is a condition of the heart. The action is nothing more than the fruit of the seed. The seed is resident in ones heart and that is sin. That’s what the bible says and that is truth. I would be a fool to argue with it. Another might?

    The problem that keeps one from understanding this truth is spiritual blindness. Please consider this post on my blog…..

    http://bromalachi.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/spiritual-cataract-it-is/

    Would gladly welcome dialogue, as long as it is decent and respectable, as I have been with you.

    Peace malachi
    http://bromalachi.wordpress.com

  13. To say it has “kept the world static in fear and ignorance for centuries” is a foolish and very shallow statement at best, which you have every right to promote.

    It would be inaccurate more like, and it isn’t what I said. I said belief, rather than the rule of law had kept the world static in fear and ignorance, and it’s an objective fact. What you refer to as the ‘Word of God’ is a technology after all – it has good sides and bad elements, but to approach it merely with belief and ignore rationality is where it has been used abusively in the past. Even Iris Robinson knows this, it’s no doubt why she probably wears mixed fibres and doesn’t expect to be put to death. She, as with many religious homophobes, quotes subjectively; where your ‘God’ is supposed to be about love and even the Bible is inconsistent on homosexuality, she chooses passages which suit her bigotry. That’s abuse – reason demonstrates to us that we are all equal, science proves to us that sexual orientation is both inherent, and fluid for many of us, whilst history has proven that it has always been there.

    So what is the difference between them and homosexuality? Is there a difference?

    That’s a stupid question. You’re making an implicit connection between violence, sex with someone who a) can’t give consent and b) isn’t a sexual being yet, sex between species and homosexuality. You really think love and the expression of it is the same as rape and bestiality? If you believe that then I’m sorry for you, your belief has robbed you of the ability to critically evaluate an important aspect of humankind. If you’re just trying that nonsense out because you don’t know any better, then (the offer was made to Iris too but she rejected it) it may make sense to get to know some gay people so you can understand the reality. It’s all we ultimately have to go on after all.

  14. ACTUALLY, assaults on Christian values are common in the UK. Its not like the BBC refrained from showing “Jerry Springer: The Opera”, and last I recalled mocking Christian values can get you on the best seller list alal Richard Dawkins.

    And, no one goes to jail for it, or has police reports for it.

    Yet, the moment someone critisises Homosexuality, they are labled Homophobic hate mongers and a police investigation is issued.

    really, this isn’t about wining equel status before the law, its baout forcing, by fear and intimidation, an acceptanc eof Homosexuality onto others.

    Incedentllay, as a Psycology student, I can say that there is no actual research that supports he claim that peopel ar eborn gay. Yes, its the prevailing view and previaling statement, but its based on politics not science, just ike this absurd silencing of anyone hwo dares to speak ill of Homosexuality is politics.

    Politics of oppression, that is.

    Can’t you just grow up and let people have their free speech and fair sya on topics? WHy try to silence peopel base don your own intolerance of their views?

  15. I will join in with the discussion and answer some of your points. However, reading some of this reminded me of something Richard Dawkins said recently…

    “I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world’s great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. Faith, being belief that isn’t based on evidence, is the principal vice of any religion. And who, looking at Northern Ireland or the Middle East, can be confident that the brain virus of faith is not exceedingly dangerous?”

  16. “but how did YOU reach the conclusion that homosexuality is a ‘prevailing wickedness’?”

    The word of God.

    By this, I’m once again having to assume you’re talking about what you beleive is the literal word of God?

    I’m sorry if I’m wrong, but I’m reading between the lines here and I’m thinking you are coming across as a literalist when it comes to theology, so when you talk about the word of God you only mean the ink on the paper – not the meaning. For to have a greater understanding of the Bible you surely need to apply a historical critical approach don’t you?

  17. “James it seams your verbiage is semantics at its best. It is not the action that needs clarification but the heart that has lead to such action”

    But I say again, what if there is no action?

    Let’s get this straight. If a homosexual doesn’t actually have sex, he’s/she’s still disordered and going against God’s word?

    So, based upon that, there are scriptures which forbid even just platonic love between same sexes now are there? This human capacity for love is gender restricted? Or is this, as I said earlier, more an issue of sodomy?

  18. Malichi, you are posing your argument in extremes when discussing gay sex, but relatives when discussing faith and morality. In truth most people do not find morality in the bible they search for biblical authority to back up their current beliefs. After all you don’t keep slaves, you don’t take your brothers wife if he dies, your women probably don’t cover their head. However because you search for reasons to call something bad you dig up scriptures and use them to charge people with committing sins.
    If homosexual love is wrong, why is the relationship shared by the Apostle John and Jesus, or David and Saul, an abomination if you put it in sexual terms but holy and beautiful if you just call them friends?
    My parents and brother often say that their can be no morality without the bible, that all our laws are based on the bible but these are patently untruths. Our law is actually based on personal property rights, as were many of the laws in the old testament. Remember how much it would cost if an ox gored your pregnant wife? But over time people forget the underpinnings of the law and come to believe in it’s inherent holiness rather than it’s practicality. Jesus often spoke of the “spirit of the law” rather than the letter.
    Still all this is besides the point most people on this site seem to be atheist or firm agnostics. Basing your argument on your belief that the scripture is holy should first be predicated on you verifying the truth of the scriptures. Typically this ends in the argument of “Faith”. An argument i find weak and damning, after all if I asked you to believe on faith alone that homosexuals were normal good people you would want me to back that up. In fact we are your brothers, your sons, daughters, cousins, some even parents. We are not demons crawling up from below or aliens from other lands. we share your culture, your language, and your heritage. Equating us with rapists, dogs, or pedophiles would be the same as me equating you with violent terrorists because you both are monotheist. We simply want to live our lives and find someone who loves us and wants to be with us. Is this seriously such a crime?

  19. Some very good points Tim.

    Lots of people use biblical text to try and justify their own prejudice. Condemnation, oppression, marginalisation? Bigotry will nearly always claim to have God on its side. But isn’t it fascinating how these people use bits of text from the Bible when they need to spew their own bile and claim it’s actually the word of God, but they conveniently forget to be consistent with their literal approach. For example, do they encourage people to gouge out their eyes or cut off their hands as a remedy for temptation? Do they still advocate slavery? My point being, they use a historical critical approach to understanding God’s word sometimes, but on the other hand they’ll revert to literalism to have God on their side to justify unpleasantness.

  20. Malachi said..

    James it seams your verbiage is semantics at its best. It is not the action that needs clarification but the heart that has lead to such action.

    Malachi, It wasn’t semantics. I’m actually trying to get some kind of clarification as to what you mean (or what you think God means) because it’s not clear. Are you telling us that the Bible condemns love between two men or two women, regardless of whether they have sex?

  21. @ Zarove –

    ACTUALLY, assaults on Christian values are common in the UK. Its not like the BBC refrained from showing “Jerry Springer: The Opera”, and last I recalled mocking Christian values can get you on the best seller list alal Richard Dawkins.

    No, a play and a book about atheism are not assaults on Christian values. Mocking religious figures is hardly an assault, and one wonders why a recourse to humour is so difficult for the most pious. Christian values are supposed to be about peace, love and charity, none of which were present in Iris Robinson’s two rants, so why should she get an opt out of criticism? Why should being a theist make you immune from criticism, when belief encourages irrationality and comments like hers. I’m not saying for a minute that all religious people are wrong minded, nor that all religions are essentially bad, but your implicit complaint that criticising religious homophobes is somehow anti-Christian is completely ridiculous. We live in a society which whilst still under entrenched Christian representation (taken a look at the composition of the Lords lately?), accepts that everyone is objectively equal. Blind, uncritical belief in that not being true is just stupid.

    Yet, the moment someone critisises Homosexuality, they are labled Homophobic hate mongers and a police investigation is issued.

    Well let me remind you that homophobia is an irrational fear of gay people so there’s a QED in play here. And Iris wasn’t complained about because of her personal beliefs, she was complained about because she’s a politician and used a particularly violent, unacceptable invective against all gay people. Should a politician quite literally preaching hate be allowed freely to do so?

    Incedentllay, as a Psycology student, I can say that there is no actual research that supports he claim that peopel ar eborn gay. Yes, its the prevailing view and previaling statement, but its based on politics not science, just ike this absurd silencing of anyone hwo dares to speak ill of Homosexuality is politics.

    You start your position from a biased perspective. There’s actually no research to say that people are not born gay. The study I mentioned is so horrifically biased it’s almost painful. The prevailing view of inherent homosexuality is ‘political’? Utter nonsense. It’s down to unlimited counts of anecdotal evidence. People talk about their sexual development these days, in large measure because people like Iris Robinson no longer hold sway.

    Can’t you just grow up and let people have their free speech and fair sya on topics? WHy try to silence peopel base don your own intolerance of their views?

    I haven’t tried to silence a soul, and whilst I don’t agree with a thing you say respect your right even to add it to my blog. That feels pretty grown up to me, and I’m disappointed you think otherwise. However your final sentence is ridiculous and mostly demeans any other point you were trying for. I, and I hope all other rational people, will always be intolerant of intolerance.

  22. “Are you interested in what the Word of God says about homosexuality or do you consider God to be a homophobe?”

    I consider God to be a fiction. So whatever he’s supposed to have said is also a fiction.

  23. Oh hello Charles! Obviously you’ve been googling for more on this story just as I have!

    Well maybe I don’t need now to say what I was going to to Brother Malachi and Brother Danny (do you suppose they really are brothers?), but here goes anyhow. Now boys, you may be a bit taken aback by this, as clearly nobody has told you before, so you might want to, I don’t know, cover one eye as you read it or turn the brightness up on your monitor very slowly so it appears gradually and doesn’t come as too much of a shock. OK? OK. Here goes:

    God doesn’t exist.

    Phew. We got there. Still with us, boys? Well done. Proud of ya.

  24. Yep, I’m pretty much with you Charles. However, I did study the Bible so I’m in the unique position to be able to say that whilst I’m not a Christian, it’s helpful to know and use the book they live by to try and de construct some of their misguided opinions.

  25. Wow cosmodaddy, a lot of discussion since my last comments just not much support for my view except from Zarove. Thanks zarove for the encouragement.

    Comments by cosmodaddy
    That’s a stupid question. You’re making an implicit connection between violence, sex with someone who a) can’t give consent and b) isn’t a sexual being yet, sex between species and homosexuality. You really think love and the expression of it is the same as rape and bestiality?

    Try not considering it from the child’s or from the animal’s perspective. We someone commits a fault against another, there is never any consideration for the innocent victim. The child and the animal are both simply the recipient of the sinful act.

    Concerning the association with violence.. simply ludicrous. Just because an act is not violent doe not make it acceptable. This viewpoint can only be supported by a lawless mind.

    The issue is not whether the act is non-violent or even consensual, but whether it is against the law. When I say against the law I don’t mean man’s law but God’s law.This is the crux of the matter.

    Please consider this example:

    Lev.18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbor’s wife, to defile thyself with her.

    Now God’s word says that a man and a woman shall not participate in adultery. It does not matter if it is consensual, non-violent or even if it is acceptable by societies standards.

    Lev.18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

    The heathen of the land would take their infants (young children) and offer them to the false gods of Molech and Chemosh. They would cast them into the fiery sacrifice. We can equate this to the 48,000,000+ babies that have been murdered through the lawful act of abortion in America alone.

    Lev.18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

    The act of homosexuality is not natural and is an abomination to God. It has nothing to do whether it is non-violent, accepted by societies standards or even if it is consensual. It is sin my friend.

    Lev.18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

    This confusion leads to a sick society. It ought not to be. It is not unusual to find a man or a woman who can find fault with God’s law, but after all the potter hath power over the clay. It does not matter what man’s law says, it God’s law whereby every man shall one day stand.

    Comment by cosmodaddy
    “Well let me remind you that homophobia is an irrational fear of gay people so there’s a QED in play here.”

    cosmosdaddy- i would like to say that the word ‘homophobia’ has absolutely no merit with me. I am not afraid of a homosexual. I work with homosexuals, I have a nephew that is a homosexual. I do not fear any of them. They are good people and do a good job. Concerning their ‘alternate lifestyle’ it is sin. Even if you try to dress it up with a pleasant ascription ‘gay’, it is still sin, and I still love them. I just can never condone their wilful rejection of God’s word.

    This will be my last post on this tread but truly do appreciate you for letting me post my heart and not censoring my comments. I think that I have said everything that can be said. As to its acceptance…. it is a real good chance that it will be rejected.

    Charles and James’ comment pretty much sum it up..

    Comment by Charles Lambert
    “I consider God to be a fiction. So whatever he’s supposed to have said is also a fiction.”

    Comment by James
    “Yep, I’m pretty much with you Charles. However, I did study the Bible so I’m in the unique position to be able to say that whilst I’m not a Christian, it’s helpful to know and use the book they live by to try and de construct some of their misguided opinions.”

    James, it is not about reading the Bible, it is about spiritual comprehension. This only can come when one is born again of the Spirit of God, but I do pray that you might understand what God wants you to understand.

    The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

    malachi

  26. Malichi, don’t ever quote law from the old testament if you are in fact a christian of the NEW testament. More over you are picking the verses that are relevant to your point but over looking the ones on taking slaves, eating shellfish and wearing multi-fabric clothes. Also you are over looking the verses in which parents are to stone their children for talking back or misbehaving.
    Once more you are trying to back up your beliefs by cherry picking, ie choosing only what is good to your arguments.
    If you want to talk about clean and unclean practices should I remind you of peter’s vision of eating the unclean animals? How God said nothing that he made was unclean? Wouldn’t that also apply to gays?
    But this is again meaningless because you base your entire argument simply on the validity of the the bible once again. and Again I do not cede authority over my morality to your god or your religion. Yes there are important philosophical points made in the bible, it spans thousands of years of a peoples histories but you are trying to put yourself in a seat of judgment concerning the morality of your fellow man. Gays have been victimized throughout history, burnt alive, stoned, crucified, beaten to death beheaded. you name it it’s been done to us. The concentration camps, pretty bad right, you wouldn’t stick animals in those conditions but after the camps were freed do you know the only people that were left there to die? Gays. This is what your compassion and concern have brought us, misery and death. If you still want to judge us and be concerned go out and find a young gay and love him unconditionally, tell him you expect him to get married to a man, tell him he needs to make sure he builds a family. Than see what comes of his life. Don’t quote laws you don’t follow and stop assuming that when we tell you that our brains are programed to love our own sex stop assuming that we are lying or making it up. If there is a god and he did make us this way, and we are trying to settle down and find a mate why are you getting in the way? Sure there are gays who are rapists and pedophiles, but there are also straights who are also. Do you tell all straights that they should be celibate for the crimes of a few?
    now go out there and try growing spiritually yourself. and stop beating a horse that is completely sick of the act.

  27. Malachi, you’re bowing out without answering any of my questions. You have so much to say on the matter, but you’ve not answered a single one.

    Of course this is not just about reading the Bible: it’s more about understanding the message rather then the ink on the page. However, that’s entirely my point. That was the nub of why I asked you specific questions relating to your understanding of the Bible because my understanding of you so far is that it’s YOU who is being inconsistent taking the word of God literally only when it suits you.

    If you were to take the word of God literally all of the time I’d know where I’m at with you, but you don’t. I’ve given examples above of bits of literal text in the Bible which you clearly don’t follow, for example I bet you don’t advocate slavery any more even though the literal word of God would seem to imply this is acceptable practise.

    You are typical of a fundamentalist Christian who tries to use the word of God to somehow justify their own prejudice. Misrepresenting your God and in turn preaching hate and unpleasantness for your own selfish desires. Well I’ve got news for you, I’m here to rebuff your bigotry, and to help matters more, I’ll be using the same book as you. Now please answer my questions in previous comments?

  28. I am born again christian and i am not not ashamed of it. Adultery is sin, same as homosexuality. I am not homophobic but the bible teaches that it is an abomination. God does not accept it. It says in the Bible “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” and i will stand by that. One day Jesus will return and everyone will have to stand before him and give an account. Judgement day is coming. I will also stand by this verse in the Bible “Let God be true and every man a liar”.

  29. Well thank you for putting your neck on the line.

    I am not homophobic but the bible teaches that it is an abomination. God does not accept it.

    That is an entirely meaningless point, not to mention self-contradictory. What do YOU think? Don’t rely on a book to think for you – what do YOU think? Selectively quoting a book whose social norms applied thousands of years ago surely can’t equip you effectively for looking at the modern world?

  30. I have not self contradicted myself one bit. I am do not hate gay people but i hate what they do. I believe if you come to the Lord Jesus Christ and repent from your sin you can become straight. What you practice is vile and digusting. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

  31. Andrew Wilson

    Question, who says it is not an abomination? You? or God? ‘All scripture is God breathed, it is good for reproof, reproach and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be fully equiped unto every good work’ In the old and New Testament the bible refers to homosexuality as sin, the same as adultery, fornication and drunkeness. Men forsaking their natural use and burning with desire one for another….it goes on to say let God be true and every man a liar. To condemn homosexuality is not homophobic, I am not alcholic phobic yet would stand with Gods in condeming it even though I use to do it. Your parents were hetrosexual and you could be produced with out that, therefore we can conclude that same sex relationships are not natural and therefore against nature and against God.

  32. You say ‘Selectively quoting a book whose social norms applied thousands of years ago surely can’t equip you effectively for looking at the modern world?’

    Well what i say to that is the Bible is a Divine Revelation. In the Bible we find out what God wants mankind to know about Himself and His plan. The Bible is the only written revelation of God to man. No one has ever successfully refuted the Bible. Many mock the Bible but avoid challenging it point by point. No one who has done in-depth research, honestly examining the evidence for the Bible’s inspiration and truthfulness, has been able to disprove the Bible.
    History records many who set out to disprove the Bible, who instead became believers.

    Bottom line is if you dont repent and be born again you’re going to Hell. The devil even believes in God. The devil has a hold on you and is enjoying you sinning. He is laughing at you. You are blind to what you are doing.

  33. No one has ever successfully refuted the Bible.

    Indeed, because refuting a false positive is next to impossible. Prove that your God exists and it was written by ‘Him’, moreover that every word allegedly transcribed thousands of years ago is still adhered to by ‘Him’, unchangingly in a universe defined by change. I’m not saying there isn’t important, socially useful stuff in there. I similarly don’t accept that Adam and Eve ever existed, because I can critically evaluate that book as I would all others. Why should the Bible be exempt after all?

    To condemn homosexuality is not homophobic

    Sure it is. It’s condemning a whole swathe of the population based merely on a difference they have with you. It’s not taking them as individuals or respecting their difference in any way.

    I am not alcholic phobic yet would stand with Gods in condeming it even though I use to do it. Your parents were hetrosexual and you could be produced with out that, therefore we can conclude that same sex relationships are not natural and therefore against nature and against God.

    All of that didn’t make a huge amount of sense (I hope you weren’t implying that sex is entirely and only for procreation). But we can conclude that homosexual sex and same sex partnerships happen and have happened in tribal and modern societies and throughout the animal kingdom throughout history and everywhere in the world. There couldn’t be much more natural than that, could there?

  34. I believe if you come to the Lord Jesus Christ and repent from your sin you can become straight.

    Exactly. You don’t know it at all. You believe it, and that belief is a prism which distorts your view of the world.

    What you practice is vile and digusting. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

    Oh that old chestnut. Adam and Eve are a parable, luv. And if you don’t like it, don’t do it. How difficult is that?

  35. Fancying the same sex as you is absolutely digusting, vile, filfthy and you need turned around. I back Iris Robinson up. Im behind her. Ill take my stand for God who is my saviour and who loves me and i will serve him till the day i die. Im ending this debate because anything i say you twist it. “Greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world”. Remember God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of their wickedness! The 2 cities were destroyed by fire and brimstone. The word “sodomy”, meaning acts stigmatized as “unnatural vice”. The Lord Jesus Christ is returning soon to set up his kingdom on earth and will judge the nation. Im sorry to say but if you do not get right you will be cast into hell forever. Im praying right now that the Lord will have mercy on you and that you will turn from your sin. May the Lord convict you. God Bless

    Melanie

  36. Haha hilarious. You think you can win a debate when you’re not prepared to debate? You haven’t even answered a single question of mine, and yet you condemn me for ‘twisting’ things? Maybe you’re too scared to look at what I’ve asked you for fear of actually finding the answer and not being able to find solace in the attitudes and opinions of the original writer and subsequent translators!

    The Lord Jesus Christ is returning soon to set up his kingdom on earth and will judge the nation.

    Soon eh? When exactly? Do you have evidence for this? And which nation? Britain? Maybe you’re right in ending our ersatz ‘debate’, because it’s impossible to debate stuff like this – it doesn’t mean anything.

  37. Andrew Wilson

    Ok so its not just for procreation, what other use is it intended for?? U see there is the proof of sin, leaves sown together for a covering, not what they were intended for, but that fall went on to murder when Cain saw that Abel was accepted because he came through blood sacrafice. Again that is the antedote for sin, the blood of Jesus Christ…I won’t argue on as you call it false…like it is written in the last days men shall call good evil and evil good. The revival of Sodom is prophesied in the last days as a sign amongst others that the Lord is returning soon, you are an evidence that the bible is true. You will find also that there is more evidence for Christs burial and resurrection than there is for the battle of waterloo! 🙂 God bless

  38. Good grief. Stop talking with someone else’s words and take responsibility for your own ideas. I fail to understand people who insist on things like ‘sex was designed for procreation only’ – how do you know? When the reality is that sex is also about pleasure, about fun, about getting to know people, relaxation and a myriad of other functions, who are you to say what the one, true, fixed function is? Unless you believe it of course, which will keep your eyes closed to everything which doesn’t suit your own attitudes. It’s a cancer.

    You will find also that there is more evidence for Christs burial and resurrection than there is for the battle of waterloo!

    I’ve needed a good laugh all afternoon – thanks! 😉

  39. Well in the day of Noah people laughed at Noah building the ark because it had never rained on earth before. They made fun of him and mocked him. But Noah had faith in the Lord and listened to him. Then the Lord sent the flood and the doors were shut and everyone drowned. That my friend will happen to you. You may mock me and other christians but one day it will be too late. God Bless 🙂

  40. I thought you weren’t going to debate any more? Not that you’re not welcome to of course. Don’t forget to answer even one of my questions, which I only raised to reflect back at you the irrationality of your venom at me – someone you don’t even know yet choose to be disgusted by. I mock people who don’t take responsibility for their own attitudes and ideas, who choose to selectively quote from a book, the totality of which is blatantly not true, although some of the parts may be. I find it regrettable, yet all too human, to see people who reject change, when the universe is entirely about change. That’s not true of all Christians, and all religions and spiritual systems do not advocate avoiding change – some indeed celebrate it. It tends to make them happier human beings.

    I bet you I don’t drown in a Biblical flood, as I’m also not going to waste my life held back by blind belief. I choose to celebrate the diversity of humanity instead – even you. Maybe neither of us is going to lose after all?

  41. I would like to echo the comments made above to the effect that if people are going to quote scripture as evidence of proper moral behaviour, they should use the whole text and not the bits that suit them.

    This blog post was about intolerance, and some of the comments have only serve to emphasise the fact.

  42. Mel, your stand upon God’s most Holy word is both admirable and true, but you are bordering on being unbiblical my friend…..

    Remember ‘the shaking of dust’ cough… cough…. cough…..

    Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, [saying], How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

    http://bromalachi.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/for-the-proverbial-palate-06132008/

    malachi

  43. Andrew Wilson

    Ok I did answer your remarks, you have a calendar which states AD in the of our Lord finish that statement with Jesus Christ so you can’t use a calendar without proving the bible true….

    I amen what brother malachi has said and will shake the dust off my feet as it is written don’t cast your pearls before swine… the possible bit was a typo you could not be born without a hetrosexual union!!!

    blind belief well the bible does say the just shall walk by Faith and not by sight so I take that as the highest compliment…

    I didn’t read many other comments if I have echoed what they have said that proves in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established…anyhow another waste of my time…

    The next time the Lord destroys the earth it will be by fire and not water…I have told you the truth and so can say your blood can not be held to my account…

    As for procreation sex within a marraige union is for what you have said, anal abuse is not sex, like Abraham Lincoln said if you have a dog and call the tail a leg how many legs does it have?? ans…four because you call the tail a leg does not make it one!!!

    What you call sex is not sex it is abuse of your body, you will reach a day when you sneeze you will crap yourself!!! ha ha

  44. What is your problem having the word Irish in it when the Northern Ireland goverment takes its laws from the rest of the UK.

  45. @ Andrew Wilson

    I don’t even know where to start with your calendar comment. How exactly does counting from a certain date, which I understand is disputed anyway, prove that the bible is true?

    And I don’t think anyone is denying the fact that heterosexual sexual intercourse can result in the birth of a child… what’s your point?

    Blind belief is just that, blind. Use your own eyes, make your own opinions. Wishing something is otherwise doesn’t make it so – your own comment about Abraham Lincoln applies to you too. At least a dog’s tail is demonstrably a tail – you can see it for yourself, there’s proof. Where’s your proof that homosexuality is a sin and we’ll go to hell because of it? Oh, it’s written in a book? It must be true then…

    And your final statement just shows what sort of person you are.

    @ Brother Malachi

    I think it’s already been made quite clear that the text of the bible is not going to sway the opinions of those here who choose not to accept it’s word as truth – your posting large tracts of it are just detracting from the debate.

    Give us your opinions, not quotes.

    As a general note to all the Christian people who are bombarding this blog with their opinions, perhaps they could take the time to re-read the original post at the top of the page – you know, the one about hate and intolerance. Nothing to do with sex or the bible.

  46. You call me blind, but you do not accept Gods word so can cut the other way in the fact you profess to see yet deny what the bible says.

    Yes Brother Malachi I her ya, one problem the basis for all life as a believer is the bible, in it is Gods moral law and what does it say about this issue, love the sinner hate the sin…cleary we must recognise that this is a sinfull practise that we are asking people to tolerate…would you tolerate a murderer in your house how would feel about it?

    So the implications of a murderer or a theif are direct on me, so too is sexual perversion.

    Everything to do with sex and the bible, for it is written ‘come ye out and be ye separate and touch not the unclean thing’ If God doesn’t judge Britain and Amercia He will have to appologise to Sodom and Gomorrha

    Lets face it Brad, Cosmos daddy and yourself do not like these truths found in Gods word and therefore stand as God haters. You deny His existance, His right to have His say in moral living, and just to clear another matter about quoting the bits that suit me in the bible, you find the bits to the contrary then!! instead idle crap!!!

    I’ll stand toe to toe with anyone with a bible, God clearly condemns the sin and names it He then offers a way of salvation to the Sinner through His Son the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Do I hate the homosexual people no, I pray that God will open their hearts and like the martyrs dying for withstanding the Roman Catholic mass during the reformation which is also called an abomination in scripture as they died they sang and prayed Lord lay not this sin against them but open their eyes.

    Nothing do with sex and the bible brother Malachi are you drugs? the title here is ‘Homosexuality is not an ‘abomination’ and the right honourable lady quoted the bible by uttering those words!!!

    Face it you all don’t like the bible because it is against this lifestyle as it is against any sinfull lifestyle, but offers a means of grace to escape it, ‘how shall we escape if we neglect such great salvation!!!

  47. One for cosmos daddy beleif is a prism than contorts your view exactly right, you believe that how are living is right and that has contorted your view, that cuts both ways I’ll take my chances on the bible it has outlived every dictator on the earth…. deny it at your peril The word of God shall abide forever

  48. How on earth do you justify putting your private parts into another mans back end that they pooh out of. Cant you see how that is unnatural and digusting. How can you be so blind to this. So many infections come out of this and i agree with Andrew Wilsons comment. One day you will sneeze and pooh yourself. That is a fact. One day your bowels will collapse and i will have no sympathy for anyone gay people.

    We are seeing the natural consequences of violating nature’s laws now. They are also a warning to prevent the ultimate eternal consequences. How many will ignore that warning and continue to call the messenger a bigot and continue to shake their fist at God? How many will heed that warning of a loving Father, ready to forgive and reconcile His prodigal children?

  49. “You may mock me and other Christians but one day it will be too late”

    I’ve seen far more mockery and sheer unpleasantness directed at homosexuals on this thread – certainly with far more vicious severity than any criticism of Christianity.

    However, I suppose you’ll say you have God on your side so that’s the only justification you feel you need to spew your filthy bile. I’m actually quite saddened and pretty angry. All this intolerance and bigotry you people come out with – and you have the absolute temerity to say it’s the word of God.

    However, I’m slightly refreshed that your kind of distorted understanding and theologically-flawed version of God’s word don’t represent all Christians and that those of you who seek to be vindictive and hateful are only a minority. Misrepresenting your God, and in turn preaching hate and unpleasantness for your own selfish intolerance is abominable and totally reprehensible and it’s a good job for mankind that you don’t represent Christianity as whole.

  50. Mel said…..”How on earth do you justify putting your private parts into another mans back end that they pooh out of. Cant you see how that is unnatural and digusting.”

    I have to ask, what is your definition of ‘natural sex’? Am I to assume that you beleive that the word of God forbids any kind of sexual contact unless it results in pro-creation? If so, you are once again misrepresenting your God. However, if we examine your argument closer it’s inconsistent anyway. For example, why do you only single out people who have anal sex? (by the way, lots of heterosexual people do that as well. Also, many gay people don’t). Why not say people who masturbate are sinners also. And what about oral sex? No procreation there, so a sin I presume?

    Why on earth are you bothered what other people do in the privacy of their own home anyway? Furthermore, what business is it of yours? Why are you seemingly so concerned? On a grander scale there are far many more real serious issues in the world than having this weird preoccupation for what people do with a little piece of skin between their legs.

    As it happens, I’m a gay man and I’ve never had anal sex (no doubt you’ll still find a reason for me to be a sinner still – it’s in your nature). You see attached to my sexuality is far far more than just physical arousal and orgasm. The bigger picture is that I’m in love.

  51. Ok James bile hmmm nice thing to call Gods word as found in the King James bible which heads of state often quote, guessing that you have not read the bible this disqualifies you from saying that I have miss quoted it. If you read my statement in it I said that I would stand toe to toe with anyone having a bible. Lets read it from genesis to revelation if you want. Come on get started….

    Secondly you called me a bigot…on what grounds may I ask?

    I pointed out that homosexuality in the bible is listed as a sin and an abomination, read Leviticus and you will find there read Romans Chapter 1 and you will find it there.

    Did I write you off as a person no, like a person who is ill and vomitting idenify the person as ill quite correctly and then give them the cure.

    This is what the bible does, sinners sin thats it all of us have it in our nature from Adam but God offers His cure Jesus Christ.

    No the bible does not teach sex for procreation only, its guidelines are for only between and husband and wife within a marraige union this is God plan. Anything else is not sex.

    You cut your hair with a lawn mower if you want u’ll pay the consequences. As some one put my last statement in a previous remarks sums up the kind of person I am, well yes totally use tools for what they were designed for if not pay the consquenses. Cosmos daddy said if you don’t like it don’t do it, I accept that.

    However I do not accept picking up on my tax bill the cost of fixing someones backside because they wore it out in sexual perversion. Therefore I pay the price for your sin with others!!!

    You pick the bill up yourself and I have no problem with that at all. Fair is fair….

    You argue back blind to my statements you twist it by calling me a bigot, again I ask you how, cause if I am then who is a doctor to tell me I’m sick??? when I am…huh

    Typical satan wants to mess things up twist the truth and call evil and evil good, here we are again

  52. Quote

    “Ok James bile hmmm nice thing to call Gods word”

    No, I didn’t say that. It’s your version of God’s word that’s bile.

    You’re a bigot because you use the literal word of God to try and justify your own beliefs just when it suits you (I’m quite sure you don’t use the literal word of God with everything in life and if you did I’d at least give you more respect for consistency)

    I’m also unclear as to what your primary objection seems to be now. You say it’s the word of God but you’ve gone on to say you are concerned about any negative health issues and the subsequent bill.

  53. So you’re telling me that homosexuals have more persecution??? Well let me fill you in on a few facts. Christians suffer far more persecution than homosexuals. Over 55,000 christians are martyred for their faith EACH YEAR!!. In the paper last month a christian man Hugh Courtenay lost his license of his own castle because he wouldnt marry a same sex marriage. A gay pressure group contacted the council. How can you tell me this is fair. How can you tell me that gays face far more vicious severity than any criticism of Christianity. The apostle Paul wrote, “. . . all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution” Persecution comes as a result of living a life obedient to God’s commandments and laws. Jesus said, “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you” He explained, “Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven . . .” Jesus said the world would hate true Christians because they “are not of the world” (John 15:19). They do not think, act, or do what the world does. They truly are not “of the world.” They are hated for the “name of Jesus” because they follow Christ’s example and live by every word of God (1 John 2:6, Matthew 4:4). Yet an utterly deceived world will believe true Christians deserve to die, and will martyr them, even believing that they do God a service (John 16:2).
    It also says “And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake” .

    Whenever gay people get persecuted its ‘Poor me”. Gay people are not masculine and are feminine. That is a fact. How can you be a masculine when you fancy another man. Its uttertly disgusting and perverse. Argue you with that if you want but its the truth.

  54. You said ‘it’s a good job for mankind that you don’t represent Christianity as whole.’

    And your right, im not representing every christian because everyone that says ‘Lord Lord will not inherit the Kingdom of God’. Just because someone says they are a christian doenst mean they are. I am a christian because I asked Jesus to come into my heart and from that day on his holy spirit entered me and i have went on serving my saviour who died for me’. There are so many professing christians out there and so many so called christians say that being gay is ok. Well they will go straight to Hell if they dont repent of that. All the christians that are against homosexuals and stand by the bible are the true christians and will be in eternity with the Lord Jesus christ

  55. @ Andrew

    You deny His existance, His right to have His say in moral living, and just to clear another matter about quoting the bits that suit me in the bible, you find the bits to the contrary then!! instead idle crap!!!

    I’ve done so many times and honestly can’t be bothered. I find it remarkable to be frank that you can patronise your ‘God’ so thoroughly as to speak for him, and to presume that ‘He’ can’t speak for himself.

    deny it at your peril

    Why? What do you think will happen to me?

    @ Mel

    Cant you see how that is unnatural and digusting.

    All men are built for it, so I’m not sure how it’s unnatural. You clearly don’t understand much about how anal sex is gone about do you? Do you hate the legions of straight people who partake of it too?

    So many infections come out of this

    Many can, yes. And equally as many arise from vaginal sex. Am I then entitled to find you abominable for your sexual behaviour? There is a good reason why condoms are universally a good idea, and why it’s wise practice for everyone to visit sexual health clinics.

    We are seeing the natural consequences of violating nature’s laws now.

    I see. What are those consequences, and where do you find these laws written? Has nature told you itself?

    @ Andrew

    However I do not accept picking up on my tax bill the cost of fixing someones backside because they wore it out in sexual perversion.

    If you think that happens with many, most or all gay men, you’re very much mistaken. Do you hate other straight men who regularly insert items into themselves for sexual gratification (because we are all built that way as men)? And I’d challenge you to cite wearing one’s backside out in sexual perversion as a regular cause for admission in the NHS. The mental image is quite amusing though – thanks! 🙂

    And bigot is what you are, the definition being:

    A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

    or

    One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

    Pretty conclusive I’d say. For more than one person on this thread.

  56. Quote: “I pointed out that homosexuality in the bible is listed as a sin and an abomination, read Leviticus and you will find there read Romans Chapter 1 and you will find it there”

    Do you know what? you’re a real danger with a Bible. You seriously are. You use that book like a knife. I actually worry that you’re a menace to society with that book and the harm you cause because of your misunderstanding.

  57. Its uttertly disgusting and perverse. Argue you with that if you want but its the truth.

    No, it’s your opinion. It’s a mean-spirited, angry, intolerant and just plain ignorant one (not very Christian in other words), but an opinion nonetheless.

    Whenever gay people get persecuted its ‘Poor me”.

    I would imagine anyone legitimately persecuted would say ‘poor me’, and they’d be right. However you haven’t cited any credible anti-Christian persecution through anyone’s being gay. If 55,000 Christians really are martyred each year, that would be deplorable, as I hope you would agree the thousands of gay people regularly executed in Iran is also a deplorable situation.

  58. Ok James you’ve ignored my point and gone on to make an assumption…

    Firstly you haven’t shown be anything different from the bible and condemned me for ‘my version of Gods word’ can I make something clear there is only one version of His word its called the bible…I said get me someone to stand toe to toe to me with a bible and show me where I’ve misquoted it….

    Next you have assumed that I don’t use it for the rest of my life? How do you know? I can assure you that I do and I read it more than once a year from beginning to end.

    Thridly I made it a health issue…why did I do that? Because the bible makes it one, I have written these things that it might go well with you….there are not only consequences for eternity but there are consequences in the here and now.

    I’ll accept its my version of Gods word if you can prove otherwise, if you can’t prove otherwise give up on it 🙂

  59. All the christians that are against homosexuals and stand by the bible are the true christians and will be in eternity with the Lord Jesus christ

    Oh so Christians are only genuine if they indulge in hate and intolerance as you do? I recommend reading your ‘scripture’ again, because it seems you’ve missed a fundamental point.

  60. Yes James anal sex is perverse, yes oral sex is perverse, yes having sex with your pregenant wife is wrong, or when she is in her monthy cycle is wrong. I do not do any of these things. Im not saying i am perfect in any way. I am a SINNER just like you and everyone else in this God forsaken world but the only difference is im a sinner saved by grace. It says if you love me obey my commandsments. I keep the sabbath day holy, and i try my best each day to live right. Yes i slip up, yes i let the Lord down but theres is a word call repentence. If i repent the Lord will forgive me. I read my bible everyday and love the Lord with all my heart. I am not out to condemn you or judge you. You may think other but i am out to tell you that Christianitiy which is the ONLY TRUE RELIGION teaches me that homosexuality is wrong. And i will stand by that.

  61. @ Andrew Wilson

    I am not going to argue the validity of the bible with you. You cannot convince me it is what you say it is, it would take a manifestation of God telling me he dictated it word for word for that to happen. In short, I do not believe you.

    You say that the bible is your basis for being intolerant of the “sin” of homosexuality – I do not recognise that authority, it is not a sin in my world view. In any case, your comparison of homosexuality to murder is offensive – the exact same thing that the original blog post above is about. What I do in bed with my partner is nothing to do with you or the bible, it causes no harm, whereas murder demonstrably ends the life of another in a violent fashion, causing great harm. To compare the two things, which have nothing to do with each other, is ridiculous. That is what the blog post is about, not the fact that the woman is religious. She is perfectly entitled to her opinion, but to broadcast it in her role as a public official’s wife is inappropriate.

    As for picking and choosing from the bible, others above have mentioned pertinent points, you obviously have not read the comments. You don’t have to look very far. The quote about homosexuality being an “abomination” comes from Leviticus. Also in Leviticus can be found information about how wearing mixed fibres is a sin, the unworthiness of those with poor sight, advocating the purchase of slaves, and the statement that eating shellfish is also an abomination. I am willing to bet that you are wearing mixed fibres now, that you don’t approve of slavery, that you have eaten shellfish of some kind at some point in your life, and that you wouldn’t condemn someone just because they have to wear glasses. So why do you condemn me because of something just as ridiculous? I actually wear glasses too, woe is me.

    For the record, I do not hate God. You can’t hate something you don’t believe in. Should evidence surface proving me wrong, I will gladly change my opinion – but I’m not particularly worried about that happening.

    And as for the bible outliving dictators – the earth was here long before the bible was written, and there is empirical proof of that.

    @ Mel

    First off, I’d like to reiterate that this blog post is about the intolerance of homosexuality, not the intolerance of anal sex. Homosexuality does not equal anal sex. Plenty of gay men do not have anal intercourse, not everyone likes it, and not being a lesbian I can’t say for sure but I would imagine it doesn’t feature very highly for them either. On the other hand, plenty of heterosexual couples have anal intercourse because they enjoy it – gay men do not have the monopoly on this!

    Honestly, do you only ever have sex because you want to make a baby? And do you always do the same thing – just put it in and out a few times? I’m sorry to question your sex life, I’m not trying to be crass, but (at the risk of resorting to playground tactics) you started it. But I feel very sorry for you if that’s the case.

    And for your information, your bowel is not constantly full of faeces. The body is quite efficient at expelling its waste. As for infections – STIs come from “straight” sex too, you know – it’s about who you sleep with, not how you do it. If the rectum was such a foetid hole, then why do you not get infections there? One day my bowels will collapse? If you say so, doctor Mel.

    What do you mean when you say “we are seeing the natural consequences of violating nature’s laws now”? What consequences?

  62. Mel said…

    “So you’re telling me that homosexuals have more persecution???”

    Once again, I didn’t say that (the way you read and twist things is not exclusive to the Bible is it).

    I said “mockery and sheer unpleasantness” on this thread.

  63. Ah, I took so long formulating my reply that there are loads of responses after the ones I was referring to now! Please try to read it in context.

  64. anal sex is perverse, yes oral sex is perverse, yes having sex with your pregenant wife is wrong, or when she is in her monthy cycle is wrong.

    You must be a very lonely person to be wasting time blogging about the intensity of your feelings about something you know nothing about, not to mention for having such a problem with what represents most of the human race.

    I am not out to condemn you or judge you.

    You hypocrite. You’ve done nothing else.

  65. How can you say i hate homosexuals? I hate what they do. I dont hate the person. I dont hate you cosmodaddy but i hate the sin that you do.

  66. Mel said…

    “You may think other but i am out to tell you that Christianitiy which is the ONLY TRUE RELIGION teaches me that homosexuality is wrong. And i will stand by that”

    Your understanding of your religion is wrong. I can discuss with you why and where, but I have a feeling you’ve made your mind up.

  67. Ok Cosmos daddy so you admit two wrongs don’t make a right, Iranians murder gay people actually 140,000 christians are martyred each year for their faith.

    You blaspheme the name of my God Jesus of Nazereth in your title with reference to Iris you carry banners saying that Jesus is a fag and you don’t expect an answer back…of course you will have an answer back…because this is the Faith for which the saints did so ernestly contend for….

    You say Mel has an unChristian attitude, then how you identify what a Christian attitude should be? I’d do it my the bible, it teaches me to love my enemies, to pray for those persecute me and speak all manner of evil against me and I read this and do it…furthermore it goes unto say have nothing to do with the evil works of darkness rather reprove them…so I do that too…

    Works of darkness is sin things that the devil would have people to do, i.e. homosexulaity withcraft, perversion, lies fornication etc… get the picture?

    again assumptions without evidence seems to be speciality of the day

  68. You blaspheme the name of my God Jesus of Nazereth in your title with reference to Iris

    Well blasphemy doesn’t mean anything. A crime against a theoretical concept is one without meaning. I chose that for a subsequent post to get attention. It worked.

    you carry banners saying that Jesus is a fag

    I do?! Where? Certainly not placed by me, but it sounds funny. I can’t really respond to the rest of your post, because it’s similarly meaningless. Talk in actual concepts and realities rather than ‘witchcraft’ and ‘devil’ and I’ll do my best to reply. I note you haven’t responded yet to any of my earlier posts refuting yours.

  69. Andrews said..

    “I’ll accept its my version of Gods word if you can prove otherwise, if you can’t prove otherwise give up on it”

    The nub of this is how YOU read God’s word. Do you read it and take everything you read literally or do you apply any kind of historical-critical understanding?

  70. Ok Brad mixed fibres again this was to prevent certain things would erupt as a result like moulds, etc that it would go well with them there is a reason behind it. Again you disregard the bible.

    Again you quote the bible and then go on to say you don’t believe it…I will pray that the Lord opens your eyes to the Truth revealed in His word.

    The One who spoke the World into being also spoke into the bible 🙂

    Aside to this medical evidence proves that homosexuality has health consequenses and is against nature what need I say more

  71. Michael O'Connell

    Gays are sissys and poofs and need turned around. You’s arent men. You’s are a pack of women the lot of you’s. You’s may as well go and put a pink dress on and makeup. You’s are sickos!!!!!

  72. “You blaspheme the name of my God Jesus of Nazereth in your title with reference to Iris”

    Oh here we go – the old blasphemy card. Well since you started it…please also remember and respect that non-Christians have the same level of protection in law. The Human Rights Act defines ‘religion’ as any religious belief or similar philosophical belief. It does not exclusively mean a faith in a God or Gods. A test case concluded that non belief in any God is ‘a similar philosophical position’ to having a faith in a God and should be protected accordingly.

  73. Michael O'Connell

    Gay people are sickos!! You’s are a bunch of poofs and sissys! You’s can never call yourselves men!

  74. Andrew said…

    “Aside to this medical evidence proves that homosexuality has health consequenses and is against nature”

    Do you mean anal sex? Once again (and how many times have people said this in this long thread) – anal sex isn’t exclusive to homosexuals – indeed many homosexuals don’t do it.

  75. Aside to this medical evidence proves that homosexuality has health consequenses and is against nature what need I say more

    It does? Care to prove your case on the former, or back Mel up on the latter point? It’s not against nature, Andrew. It’s always happened, in tribal and modern societies, and throughout the animal kingdom. Not just homosexual sex, but same sex partnerships and relationships. Are you saying the entire animal kingdom is equally as wrong as humankind, and that tribal societies, with no connection at all with your religion, are also ‘against nature’? Who are you to decide what that even is?

    Oh and @ Michael O’Connell – assuming you’re not a troll, probably best not to say those sorts of things if your employer is a government department. They don’t tend to take statements like that very well. And do you hate straight men like Barry Humphrys, who do dress up and wear make-up? Or Eddie Izzard (who’s straight)?

  76. Ok so maybe not all homosexuals have anal sex but its still not natural to fancy or be ‘in love’ with the same sex as you. Its stilll digusting that you can be attracted to a man. No point me asking you why you are not attracted to women because you are blinded by your own sin so no point disgussing that issue. The deil has you blinded. It says in the Bible you cannot serve two masters. You are either on Gods side or the Devils. So obviously you serve Satan…

  77. @ Mel – you still haven’t said where you’ve seen The Laws of Nature which determine that it’s not natural to fancy or love someone of the same gender. Given that it’s always happened, happens everywhere, and shows no signs of abating, the empirical evidence suggests quite strongly that it’s pretty natural. It’s a further element of differenc, which is what makes the human race so interesting.

    Its stilll digusting that you can be attracted to a man.

    Oh dear. You’re back to condemning again. You do realise you’re preaching to an indifferent audience don’t you?

    No point me asking you why you are not attracted to women because you are blinded by your own sin so no point disgussing that issue.

    Well you’re right in part. There’s no point in discussing it because it’s an inherent quality about me. We equally wouldn’t discuss why my eyes are green or why I’m right handed.

  78. mel said..

    “Ok so maybe not all homosexuals have anal sex but its still not natural to fancy or be ‘in love’ with the same sex as you. Its stilll digusting that you can be attracted to a man”

    Ah, so take anal sex out of the equation – and it’s still disgusting? Just as I thought.

    Oh my, how the goalposts change.

    So what specific scripture tells you this then? Two men who love each other is a sin? Where’s that? I assume also that things like Father Son relationships have immunity from non-love thing, yeah?

  79. Persecute me all you want, argue you with me all you want and call me all sorts of names like a hypocrite, i dont care. The world hated Jesus first which is why people like you hate me. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness.”

    So love me, hate me, i dont really care!!

    People said to Martin Luther that the world be against him when he stood for what he believed in, and he said back ‘Well then im against the world’.

    God Bless you cosomodaddy 🙂

  80. Persecute you?! You theists really do think you’re the centre of the universe don’t you? You come onto my blog, spouting all sorts of insults and ignorant crap, then claim you’re the one being persecuted?! Really amazing.

    The world hated Jesus first which is why people like you hate me.

    Are you for real? Instead of answering a single point anyone’s given you, to refute your hysterical posts, you claim you’re hated ‘just because’. That’s belief for you – a cancer, as I’ve said many times. It’s curious you should choose Martin Luther to back your attitudes up – he was an anti-semite.

  81. Well Cosmos He can speak for Himself, though His chosen route is usually lips of clay, like Moses, like Joshua etc not everyone heeded them and as result paid the price.

    Deny it at your peril, well you know what will happen to you, its a place called Hell and Jesus spoke about it more than any other man in the bible..

  82. Deny it at your peril, well you know what will happen to you, its a place called Hell and Jesus spoke about it more than any other man in the bible.

    Meaningless pre-Enlightenment gibberish. I told you I can’t talk to you about stuff if your posts have no meaning.

    Well Cosmos He can speak for Himself

    Fine. So you’d agree that if your ‘God’ can speak for ‘Himself’, he probably doesn’t need you (or appreciate you) fighting ‘His’ case. Particularly if you’ve wilfully misinterpreted it to back your own ignorant attitudes up.

    So your ‘God’ hasn’t spoken for ‘Himself’ since Biblical times. Hmm. I find that revealing too.

  83. Andrew Wilson

    We are the centre of the universe Gods word says that we are the apple of His eye….furthermore turn it the other way at that is where you think you are creating all this fuss over Iris’s words and trying to condemn her and put a ban on free speech!!

    beleif a cancer cosmos what about your beleif to believe nothing turn it the other way thats a real cancer so good you don’t know you have it…use fact in debate not a fascet of your imagination….

    Historical Fact: Jesus came to earth from heaven was born of a virgin, was crucified and rose again on the third day and ascended up into heaven…. Thats why even history recognises Before Christ as B.C. and after Christ A.D.

    Fact not fascet of ones imagination

  84. Andrew Wilson

    Yes Martin Luther in his ignorance made anti semite comments as he blamed them for crucifying their king as they did, he didn’t realise that they remain Gods chosen people until this very day and have returned to their homeland since 1918 for the second coming of their King Jesus Christ of Nazerth, the man they crucified on Golgotha will return…

    Amidst the return of Sodom, amidst atomic armageddon amidst the love of many growing cold towards Him, He will fight for Jerusalem at the last day…

  85. you are creating all this fuss over Iris’s words and trying to condemn her and put a ban on free speech

    a) I haven’t advocated a ban on free speech;
    b) There has never been any such thing as completely free speech, nor should there be;
    c) Iris Robinson is a politician, who has a position of unique influence and power, and abused it by saying what she said (on both occasions). I don’t accept that she shouldn’t realise there are consequences to an abuse of power like that. That is not remotely tantamount to banning free speech.

    Historical Fact: Jesus came to earth from heaven was born of a virgin, was crucified and rose again on the third day and ascended up into heaven.

    Prove it. Show me the evidence. And circumstantial evidence doesn’t count because it’s not conclusive, which it must be in order to be a fact.

  86. Andrew Wilson

    Still free speech Iris can say what she believes to ban that is to ban free speech she say go out and kill them or mistreat them only that she believes it an abomination and you don’t like that…

    As for Stephen Scott ‘Rocket’ as I know him by having known him for 8 yrs his husband arranged the attack as they fell out and Stephen threatened him, but it suits gay rights to misquote the truth…furthermore he said he was asked to leave his church 2 yrs ago because he was gay….then in another statement said he only came out to his mum 2 weeks before the attack, I’m sure his mum who still attends the church would have found out why he was asked to leave before this.

    I know her to…

    Have prooved it you choose to ignore the evidence

  87. Andrew the coincidence that you might know the victim of the attack is far too great for me to accept. Of course you know that if you’re aware of a crime such as you describe, and you fail to report it to the police, that you in turn are breaking the law? I’d report you myself if I believed a word of it.

    I’m confused – was that supposed to be the proof of Jesus Christ I asked for? Divine knowledge maybe?

    Still free speech Iris can say what she believes to ban that is to ban free speech she say go out and kill them or mistreat them only that she believes it an abomination and you don’t like that…

    It’s wilfully ignorant of course to suggest that hate speech will only take one form: implicitly one setting and one form of language. Iris Robinson espousing hate indeed is not the same as saying ‘kill them’, but freely talking in terms of hate and intolerance doeslegitimise it for some, when done by people of influence and power.

  88. Andrew Wilson

    you can not accept truth my friend, Stephen went to Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle Belfast and was asked to leave he would basically fight with his shadow…I know him I know his mum and I am a youth leader in that church…

    Nope the fact the Christmas is on the Calendar, so to is Easter, there is a large boat sitting on Mount Arat in Turkey which vastly resembles the remains of Noahs ark, The Jews are returning to their homeland as prohesied and you live the year 2,008 AD!! More facts for the bible than the battle of waterloo

  89. Andrew Wilson

    If you live in Britain you live in a country with the title British this is Hebrew says Covenant Man, there are a number of crosses on our flag, why would that be because of different Christian patron saints. Furthermore the queen sits on a throne and is corinated over a stone which has the sand stone of Bethel….proving Gods fullfillment of prophesy to Ephraim Josephs son that He would make him a commonwealth of nations…only one place I know like that in the world…Britain…

    More proof for Jesus and the Bible again

  90. @ Andrew – that’s not evidence, it’s not proof. I asked for proof in order to legitimise you using the word ‘fact’. And please be careful – if you do know of a crime, and who perpetrated it and haven’t reported it to the police, then you’re breaking the law. But then again maybe you just believe that story, which isn’t really relevant to what we’re discussing anyway.

  91. Andrew Wilson

    Its more than you can show to the opposite duh!!!

    The story is going back to them 🙂

  92. Historical Fact: Jesus came to earth from heaven was born of a virgin, was crucified and rose again on the third day and ascended up into heaven.

    You haven’t proven it. Prove it. Flags and historical responses to the Bible does not prove your ‘historical fact’.

  93. Its more than you can show to the opposite duh!!!

    Look I don’t have to prove your ‘historical fact’, because there’s no evidence yet discovered to make it one, therefore I don’t need to prove the opposite. The absence of any evidence at all makes it not a fact until there is evidence to the contrary.

  94. Andrew Wilson

    you are talking waffle that doesn’t even make sense…I have given facts you can’t ignore it, its like here comes the train its going to hit u ‘THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE’

    No point arguing with someone like that bye

  95. ‘THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE’

    In future if you’re going to argue or debate with someone, at least have the courage to stand by what you believe, what you know, what you feel, what you think, rather than hide in slogans and words which aren’t even yours. Ignorance can be bliss, but the courage of free-thinking is what’ll get you somewhere in life. Think about it.

  96. @ Andrew Wilson

    Okay, you say it was to prevent mould, I think that’s odd but maybe plausible, although it doesn’t say that in the bible so how come all of a sudden it’s ok? And what about all the other points I raised, and the countless ones I didn’t? It’s pure hypocrisy.

    And I was quoting the bible to highlight your skewed perspective, I never said I believed a word of it.

    Please stop using the bible as an argument – you can’t back it up. You are not quoting “historical facts”, you are repeating what someone has TOLD you is fact. You cannot just say “because the bible says so”. Where did you get this “battle of Waterloo” nonsense from, anyway?

    The fact Britain (and other countries) are primarily Christian countries is a matter of tradition and in no way proves the existence of God. Celebrations in Winter and Spring pre-date the bible, and there is evidence that these occasions may have been absorbed into the Christian church to help assimilate the “heathens”.

    Once again, the blog post is not about the bible or religion, it’s about intolerance.

    @ Michael O’Connell

    Thanks for your input. I hope you meet a gay person in real life sometime soon who can show you what an idiot you are. I’d imagine a few players in the gay Rugby World Cup would have something to say about your opinion. Come back when you can actually contribute something.

    @ Mel

    If something is not normal for you, it doesn’t make it unnatural. Similarly, just because you read something, it doesn’t make it true.

  97. Rob - Brad's Partner!

    These comments are getting out of hand. As people have pointed out this blog post was not about anal sex, the bible or religion, it was about her attitude and her lack of awareness as an MP in the skills need to be some form of diplomat.

    And to think you lot are associated with the Westboro Church! Sick! Very sick.

  98. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God. Psalm 14 v1.

  99. That was to Brad who obviously doesnt believe in the existence of God.

  100. Irish Robinson goes to my church. When i see her this sunday im going to go over and shake her hand for she’s an inspiration. I praise her for coming out and telling the truth.

  101. That was to Brad who obviously doesnt believe in the existence of God.

    So what? I’m sure he’s about as indifferent as I am that you do.

    When i see her this sunday im going to go over and shake her hand for she’s an inspiration.

    Good for you.

  102. @ Mel

    I did say that I didn’t believe in God a few comments ago, it’s no revelation.

    I am, however, open to the possibility that I may be wrong if proof is forthcoming. Can you say the same?

  103. Do you believe in the devil Brad? Like do you believe Satan is true? And do you believe in the powers of darkness? In ghosts, evil spirits and demons? If you do then there has to be a God?!

  104. @ Mel

    No. But, as I said before, I’m open to re-evaluating my opinion upon presentation of evidence to the contrary. We can’t KNOW that there is no God, I cannot give you evidence that there is no God, but we can understand that it is very unlikely. I base my BELIEF that there is no God, Satan, or ghouls and ghosts on that rational premise. I freely admit that I may be wrong, but I also doubt it very much.

  105. @ Mel

    And evidence of the existence of Satan would not prove the existence of God, it would prove the existence of Satan.

  106. OH DEAR! THE WORLDS GONE MAD! I am not the spawn of Satan because I am gay and believe me I think more of all you bible thumpers will be judged harshly for the hate you continue to spread. So did you think the Nazis were right to torture and murder gay people in the Nazi death camps? What exactly is this cure for being gay? Iris Robinson was inciting hatered and she probably will hate me more too because I am a catholic! Yes thats right a gay Roman Catholic that goes to mass every week! My priest and my church and all the people that attend the church don’t hate me either and there are a lot more gay people that attend that church than me! You are all shameful for inciting this hatred!

  107. You are all shameful for inciting this hatred!

    They may disagree with you:

    We are the centre of the universe Gods word says that we are the apple of His eye

  108. Andrew Wilson

    Ok so you refute flags the name of a nation or nations, you refute the Calendar you refute Christmas, Easter etc

    You must too refute the stars the formation that shows a lady with a branch and a child upon her knee, the name of the star herculees which means the one who was pierced that overcame. You must refute the rainbow and yourself made in the image of God.

    Animals do no have anal sex, I should know being an animal behaviouralist and working mainly with dairy cows, sheep and pigs never will an animal allow this you can’t find a homosexual animal therefore what you are promoting even the animal kingdom would never touch.

    Isn’t it anywonder that animals walked Noah’s gang plank instead of corrupt men and women? They heeded the call instead…..

    Cosmos you don’t accept fact, you choose to ignore anything oppossed to your present fictional state….it is true when the bible says the backslider shall be filled with his own ways…

    In another words you talk crap!!! you ignore all the facts and deny them as so…

  109. No point arguing with someone like that bye

    And yet here you are again.

    Animals do no have anal sex, I should know being an animal behaviouralist and working mainly with dairy cows, sheep and pigs never will an animal allow this you can’t find a homosexual animal therefore what you are promoting even the animal kingdom would never touch.

    Dear God they do. You’re about as good an animal behaviouralist as that guy earlier in the thread is a psychology student. But even if they didn’t, heterosexual humans do, and many gay people don’t. Brad has even reminded you about lesbians, but clearly that’s easy for you to dismiss.

    Cosmos you don’t accept fact

    Present one to discuss. Then we can talk – how many times do I have to remind you?

  110. Andrews said

    “In another words you talk crap!!! you ignore all the facts and deny them as so…”

    There are no facts. It’s your belief – and it cannot be examined. You people tell me – it just is.

  111. Mel said..

    “Irish Robinson goes to my church. When i see her this sunday im going to go over and shake her hand for she’s an inspiration”

    I don’t see you as a Christian Mel. Far from it. You have a really nasty vindictive streak running through you which isn’t conducive to being a good Christian at all.

  112. Lots of very pertinent questions are going unanswered.

    I still haven’t had an answer to my question about how you read God’s word. Do you read it and take everything you read literally or do you apply any kind of historical-critical understanding? (I actually know the answer, I just want one of you haters to say it).

  113. James you said i wasnt a christian and have a really nasty vindictive streak running through me which isn’t conducive to being a good christian at all. Hmmm…now who’s judging. 🙂

  114. I didn’t want to reach that conclusion. I’d have much rather have been affirming. But it was a judgement based purely on the way you’ve acted on this thread. One could not come to any other conclusion about you.

  115. Yet you do have a severely vindictive streak.

    Fancying the same sex as you is absolutely digusting, vile, filfthy and you need turned around.

    What you practice is vile and digusting. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

    How on earth do you justify putting your private parts into another mans back end that they pooh out of. Cant you see how that is unnatural and digusting.

    Gay people are not masculine and are feminine. That is a fact. How can you be a masculine when you fancy another man. Its uttertly disgusting and perverse.

    There are so many professing christians out there and so many so called christians say that being gay is ok. Well they will go straight to Hell if they dont repent of that. All the christians that are against homosexuals and stand by the bible are the true christians and will be in eternity with the Lord Jesus christ.

    All your words. And I noticed a slip – I thought you were against our behaviour rather than us per se. Careless.

  116. Andrew Wilson

    Yes Cosmos sounds like you’ve mistook Mel talking about the sin of homosexuality you guys really don’t get it, of course its sick vile and disgusting as all sin is….that is to hate the sin…

    You have taken her comments personally and then made them into hate concluding that we are against you as a person…thats the blindness in all of this…you don’t see reason

    Iris’s comments were very well balanced you can’t take it that she had a vital say and the Lord will honour her for it make no mistake about it…’them that honour me I will honour’

    Anyways you seem to be beneath the level of comprhension needed for decent clear cut debate as you will not see this point. I pray that this will change, I will back Iris I will be in Belfast on your Gay day to stand up for my Saviour Jesus Christ and the truth’s revealed in the bible…

    Get ready we will not lie down to this or lie under it….to live is Christ to die is gain…I do not tolerate the right of anyone to hurt or injure a homosexual person I am against that completely…like all other sinners they are in need of a saviour….but neither do I tolerate having my free speech removed from me and will die a martyrs death if I have to my children have to live in this country….I will not stand in that day and look at my saviour to tell him how I couldn’t stand no way…. get ready for more as our God is able… and I believe that He will turn this whole situation around..

  117. You have taken her comments personally and then made them into hate concluding that we are against you as a person…thats the blindness in all of this…you don’t see reason

    You haven’t uttered more than an infrequent word of reason since you started to abuse this blog, so that’s rich coming from you. You’ve presented superstition as fact, refused to answer questions which refute your ignorant points, and then try to twist your actions into not being hateful? Is that really what makes you sleep easier at night? Prove it – stop replying. You’ve already surely said all you possibly could.

    Iris’s comments were very well balanced

    Considering she likened gay people to murderers I don’t see how. Presenting two halves of an argument doesn’t mean both sides are of equal merit Andrew.

    neither do I tolerate having my free speech removed from me and will die a martyrs death if I have to my children have to live in this country

    Oh blah blah blah noone’s attacked your freedom of speech. I’ve even let you mouth your baloney on my blog, when I didn’t have to.

    I believe that He will turn this whole situation around.

    How exactly? When? Where? I don’t expect you to answer those questions any more coherently than the two dozen or so you’ve ignored thus far.

  118. Andrew Wilson

    Ok Cosmos you have shown your lack of understanding of the english language yet again when did Iris enliken a homosexual to a murderer? At the point of repentance and acceptance of Christ into their lives in another words Jesus will accept any repentant sinner on the grounds of repentance through the merits of His own shed blood…

    So therefore you do seek to limit free speech to suit your own inadequacy in understanding what has actually been said…

    To answer your last questions….How exactly that is firstly for God to know and act upon as He see’s fit though according to His word He will return soon and I believe I will see it with my own eyes, When He returns He will rule the nations with a rod of iron from Jerusalem according to His word….now you have the where He is returning to the mount of Olives….

    Again I am sure you will brand this as superstition, that is to call good evil in this case…but it will happen and don’t say I didn’t tell you so….its up to you my friend do you feel lucky enough to face that day without Him in your life?

  119. Andrew, the nub of your argument revolves around your understanding of the Bible so why are you so evasive when it comes to questions from people (like me) about whether you feel the Bible should be read and understood literally or if you take any kind of historical interpretation? It’s important to the discussion.

  120. I see you couldn’t stay away.

    Ok Cosmos you have shown your lack of understanding of the english language yet again when did Iris enliken a homosexual to a murderer?

    She likened gay people to murderers in her TV interview. Check out my post Jesus Chris, Iris! just to be sure.

    So therefore you do seek to limit free speech to suit your own inadequacy in understanding what has actually been said.

    Do you actually read the posts following yours? Do I have to actually repeat the point about free speech? Would you advocate Iris Robinson ranting about how abominable black people were, or left handed people? If you think that’s not ok then you don’t believe in unlimited free speech either.

    How exactly that is firstly for God to know and act upon as He see’s fit though according to His word He will return soon and I believe I will see it with my own eyes, When He returns He will rule the nations with a rod of iron from Jerusalem according to His word….now you have the where He is returning to the mount of Olives.

    Can’t reply to much of that, because it doesn’t mean anything, and your tendency to resort to sloganising rather than answering the question is getting pretty tedious.

    do you feel lucky enough to face that day without Him in your life?

    Sounds pretty gay to me 🙂

  121. Andrew Wilson

    Ok James I believe it is both historical literal and prophetic the bible student knows that Gods word is sharper than any two edged sword to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit….I thought that would have been a forgone conclusion….be ye doers of the word and not hearers only….

    Yet until someone is born again or has the spirit of God living within them it means nothing as it is written the Holy Spirit shall lead you into all truth…

  122. Andrew Wilson

    Ok so I watched the interview and that is when she used the comment….unless you are watching a different tv channel or something.

    Nothing gay about my final comment and your additon to this statement is nothing short of blasphemous… you see you can’t leave it at free speech you have to pull down the Holy One of Isreal….you want to sodomise Him….He may be longsuffering but remember Gods word says My spirit will not always strive with man…

    You turn love into lust and have swapped the two words not knowing the difference any more

  123. @ Andrew Wilson

    I’m really struggling not to stoop to name calling, but you really are stupid. I do not “refute” flags, names, calendars, Christmas or Easter. I dispute the fact that you see them as evidence for the bible being true.

    And as for the constellations – you do realise they only look like that from Earth, don’t you? It’s all in the perspective – the starts involved are actually nowhere near each other, some are closer than others, and if you could see them from the side they would make entirely different patterns. And as for them looking like “a lady with a branch and child upon her knee” – you can draw lines between them to make whatever picture you like! If I wanted, I bet I could connect the dots and show you a picture of two men shagging.

    Animals do not have anal sex? I’m sorry, they do. I’ve seen it on BBC1! Bonobo monkeys are well documented to be randy little beggars, and within their communities juvenile males regularly copulate because they are not allowed to do so with the females who are jealously guarded by the alpha male. They also masturbate, something else I think the bible says is a sin. So you see, these things do happen “in nature”. And while I can’t say with any surety that cows, sheep and pigs have anal intercourse, I have seen them mount one another and give it a go!

    You say Cosmo (his username is Cosmodaddy, not CosmoSdaddy, by the way) doesn’t accept fact – on the contrary. We are working from observed truths, you are spouting scripture as truth with nothing to back it up apart from a book that has been translated and edited so many times I doubt it even resembles the original text. You have not given us any facts to ignore – but you on the other hand have ignored plenty of comments and questions which you obviously find to difficult to reconcile with your own “fictional state”.

    Do you really believe the bible word for word? The animals went in two by two, Adam and Eve were the start of the human race, all that jazz? And you accuse Cosmo of living in a “fictional state”? Let me ask you this: if incest is a sin, how did the world get populated by the children of just two people? And how do you account for things like fossils of dinosaurs and enormous insects?

    Dude, we do not accept the bible as a rulebook for our lives. Some of us have read it and rejected it. You cannot win this debate by spouting random lines and threats from it, so if that is all you have to offer you may as well go away and leave us to sin ourselves all the way to hell. On a final note, I’d like to suggest that you buy or borrow a copy of “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins. It just might change your life.

    Oh, and please realise that when I say “sin ourselves all the way to hell” I’m being sarcastic, I’m not admitting that we are sinning or that there is a hell.

  124. @ Andrew Wilson

    Oh, please. What is that crap about love and lust all about? Who said anything about sodomising anyone? I know Cosmo quite well, he is a very loving person, as I’m sure his partner would testify.

    And I doubt Jesus is his type.

  125. Ok so the orignal bible was written in Hebrew and Greek the original texts that still exist today the King James is the closest translation to this text although you can get the orignal if you buy a greek lexican….so again a comment not supported by fact rather to convenience your arguement…

    The God delusion by Mr Dawkins he thinks he only is a carrier of genetic code yeah great asperation I want to live for that cause yeah….don’t think so again he proves the bible true in that let God be true and every man a liar….

    Well I guess you have put yourself in the monkey catagory with that one on mastrubation etc probably no point in arguing with one of those its too dumb to understand 🙂

    BBC1, do believe everything thats on tv??? It is most uncommon but if you choose a monkey for a role model I guess you fit in Mr Darwins and Dawkins schools of lets be animals…carriers of genetic code hmmm I want to waste my life on that rubbish…

    Next time I’m bored n need a laugh I might read that rubbish to figure out why people are so depressive these days…

    OOHH OHHH OHHH I guess those noises come from the monkey group too ha ha 🙂

    Yeah again I am not disagreeing that someone who is gay can not have any love but a homosexual relationship is beyond Gods plan and intention for mankind…again you will put your fingers in your ears that comment…

    Regarding the stars, where did God put man?? On the earth so he could see them from here and they would be relevant from here duh!!! again monkey mentality…

    I know you reject Gods word I have gathered that much already, as the fool has said in his heart no God, the words ‘there is’ were added by the translators…you see you don’t have to deny his existance many people know He is real but say no God when it comes to His word..

    As for Adam and Eve who said there was incest??? It is written Male and Female made He them plural, it is only in Genesis Chapter 3 that Adam and Eve were created in Gods image….Cain went out and found a city in the land of Nod, therefore God created other men and women in the plural sense easy one read your bible well before you come to conclusions…

    There were the anakims who were giants they did not decend from Adam and Eve there were the Nephalims etc and on and on so you can pick a better arguement than that….Adam is recorded as the 1st Adam and Christ as the 2nd Adam, the first as Gods person on the earth who fell through sin, the second Adam a quickening spirit in another words God put on Flesh and made Himself a man to provide Himself a lamb for sins and inquities….

    Get it right my friend you won’t go to hell for sodomy only for the rejection of Gods Son The Lord Jesus Christ for in rejecting Him you are rejecting God Himself…Isaiah Ch 9 v 16 His name shall be the price of peace the everlasting Father, etc

    This is why you dislike Iris and reject the bible as it speaks against homosexuality, however Jesus wants to offer you a way out of it….so that you may have life and have it to the full or more abundantly you are so lost right now you can’t even begin to imagine what that is like and I trust and pray that for your sake He will reveal it to you…

    God bless

  126. Nothing gay about my final comment and your additon to this statement is nothing short of blasphemous

    Except blasphemy doesn’t mean anything, so it really doesn’t matter.

    You turn love into lust and have swapped the two words not knowing the difference any more

    I’ve been married for two and a half years. I got married for the former quality and enjoy them both as appropriate. You have some evidence otherwise? Proof I mean, not belief.

    Yeah again I am not disagreeing that someone who is gay can not have any love but a homosexual relationship is beyond Gods plan and intention for mankind

    Meaningless. Why are you ranting on with these meaningless slogans? You haven’t expressed your own opinion. Why not? Are you scared of standing on your own two feet and taking responsibility for what you think?

    This is why you dislike Iris and reject the bible as it speaks against homosexuality

    Part of the Bible is negative against homosexuality, much of it is not. And I note that you seem to believe the Adam and Eve story as completely historically accurate. Are you one of these creationists who ignores evolution through the power of belief alone, rather than reason?

  127. Wow I totally thought this post was dead days ago, looks like you really stirred a hornets nest on this one. Are there really Westboro people posting on here? Egads I am sorry if so, dreadful people spawned from an abusive father who drives them to hate others for his own greed and profit. Truly a disgusting man.
    oh for the rest of you I have read the bible several times, I was raised a christian, I did well enough on bible quiz competitions to win a scholarship, but I didn’t take it. (horrid school no sciences)

    Alright Christers, lets all gather round and talk, juice and cookies all around, some of us gays are great cooks! Let me tell you a personal story, of why i left the christian church and reject whole heartedly the message inlaid in its many versus, some quite beautiful and touching with great morality lessons and philosophies that still rebound today. But it’s quite the crutch as Cosmo has pointed out these aren’t thoughts that you’ve reasoned on, prayed on and come to understand. These are social teachings that you have come to believe without question. Again and again you quote the old testament yet ignore it’s outdated sections. Some manage to get all the way to first Romans (whew thats a lot of reading you did skip any did you?) Yet somehow you miss the Paul saying “Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” 1 Corinthians 7,8. Now how do you reconcile that with your rejection of gay marriage? Wouldn’t that be the proper thing for gay christians to do if indeed god made them and he has a plan? Wouldn’t it be quite easy for you to say, well if you are going to be gay at least get married to the bloke so that you are not spreading the body of christ with strangers. Yet in your race to hate the sinner and seek no ground for him you force him to “burn with passion” and be over whelmed by his desires and indeed any man seems to be liable to according to Paul.

    However I reject this faith, and I do so because it is based on fear and shame over what is natural. Everyone one of you goes on to say that they hate the sin, not the sinner, yet I and others here have told you that the feelings we have for men are totally natural, when I look at a guy and he smiles at me my heart skips, when we touch I feel passion. The same you feel for women I feel for men. Now if your faith says that is unnatural, and an abomination, therefore if this argument is extrapolated we could say that you are claiming your god created this abomination. Yet can a god hate what he creates in the same breath that he makes it? Isn’t that his problem and not mine? Yet you have blindly loved the scriptures, to the point where you can hate your fellow man, past the point of holiness, past rationality past hating into willingness to murder or abuse. So I reject this god and bible of ours that you claim because you are teaching heartfelt love is against nature, that we can be born so wrong that our very minds and bodies will force us to hell. this is so out of whack so inherently self contradictory that I cannot follow any bit of it.
    When you hear of a family disowning their son or daughter for being gay, kicking them out onto the streets for daring to talk with them about it what do you feel? Do you feel sorrow, righteous indignation? If you have a child what would you do to them if you found them sneaking a kiss with the wrong gender? would you beat them, to save them, would you attach electrodes to their bodies and shock them every time their bodies betray your beliefs. Is that what you want for your child?
    As for “divine inspiration” what a load of crap, utter crap you believe something because it is old, you have faith that it is true because it is old and talks about things that could have happened. But you don’t work to hard to prove it, you read a couple of websites, trade a few anecdotes with friends regurgitate what your preachers tell you but you already believe so you don’t truly question. If you did you might have read about Gilgamesh, heard of him? Big strapping guy had dozens of wives but fell in love with a man, when that man died he traveled all the way to the land of the dead to bring him back and on his way he met Noah. Yeah the Babylonians knew of him but the story wasn’t quite so glowing. To them Noah was a King, he had received a revelation that a flood was coming so he built a boat for his family and their animals. Than when it was done he threw a feast for the whole town and when they were all eating he stole away with his family into the ark and locked the doors letting all his people drown. Now should I believe this story since it predates the bible? Is it divine inspiration that it survived? Should I base my life around it’s teachings (actually its a pretty deep story about mans inherent mortality and having to face that regardless of how powerful you are, It’s really touching) No I should evaluate it’s as a book learn the lessons our ancestors tried to pass on, not follow it based on blind faith.
    Though I suspect I have lost all of you straights and gays alike I’ll wrap this up. If you want to be a good person just do right by those around you, help the weak, feed the poor, walk a dog or the elderly. stop preaching, live the life you think you should and pass on your lessons by example. The world will judge you and either agree or not. You’ll never have to quote another verse, you’ll never have to search thru a concordance, heck you can even sleep in on sunday and have a nice sit down breakfast instead of rushing to church. The rest will work itself out. If your god thinks that’s not enough, tell him to bugger off. You have your hands full and if he wants something done, or people condemned he can damn well do it himself. So get your nose out of my bedroom, go ask your wife if she ever had an orgasm and who knows maybe you’ll get a to find out why guys can be so keen on the back door any way.

    Cheers and good night

  128. I feel sorry for you Tim that you said you were once a christian. I dont know what church you went to and what the preacher taught. I dont know what way you were brought up. But i feel so sorry for you that you have to much hate for God and deny the scriptures. You make God out that he is someone cold and stands with a big rule book. The Lord Jesus says ‘If you love me you’ll obey my commandments’. I love the Lord so much and so i obey his commandments and want to please him. But be warned, God is not mocked. Also he is a jealous God and wants you to put him first in everything ‘Thou shalt have no other Gods before me’. You may think that if God is a loving God he shoudlnt be against homosexuals, fact is he does love you but he doesnt love what you do as God says that what you do is an abomination. When you stand before him on judgement day what will you tell him. He will ask you what you did for him, and you will have nothing to tell him. You cant tell him that you fed the poor, and helped the elderly. He will then ask you ‘But what did you do FOR ME?’. Then he will say ‘Depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you’ and you will be cast into Hell forever. Its not by works, or how kind you are, or because you ‘got married’ instead of burning with lust, its what you did for the Lord Jesus Christ. Did you ask him into your heart to save you, did you repent of your sins, did you obey his commandments, did you read you bible and live by it, did you pray and talk to him, did you ask him to fill you with the holy spirit.’. If not my friend then one day it will be too late…. I cant believe you are so bitter. You have hardened your heart like Pharoah!!

    And who are you to end this debate anyway!

  129. All I can say is that if heaven really exists and it is full of faggot hating christians send me to hell.

  130. @ Andrew Wilson

    Yes, well, your latest reply to my last comment is quite telling.

    I may have called you an idiot (for which I have ample cause), but to resort to such levels as making monkey sex noises smacks of desperation. And here I thought we were having a debate.

    Original texts of the bible exist today? Where? Old versions maybe, but I doubt if “original versions” exist. You keep saying things like this and not backing them up with any evidence. You cannot use the bible itself as evidence for its own validity.

    Regardless, the bible was translated into English via other languages such as Latin, and each time it was translated those doing the work will have put emphasis on the parts they felt were relevant.

    Have you actually read The God Delusion, or just articles discussing it? There’s a lot more in it that genetic code and it does quite the opposite of what you say.

    If you tell me you’ve never masturbated, I’ll call you a liar.

    No I don’t believe everything I see on television, but yes, I believe what I see on a nature programme on BBC1 with my own two eyes, especially when I’ve read books and articles elsewhere which concur with what I’ve seen. You on the other hand believe everything you read in old books. Your frame of reference unsubstantiated, mine is well documented.

    Where did I say monkeys were role models? I said there was documented evidence of something you said did not happen – I proved you wrong, and you resort to insults.

    I think Richard Dawkins’ book is actually quite uplifting, it gave me a lot to think about and yes in places it made me laugh. That’s not a bad thing, buddy.

    Nobody has their fingers in their ears, we have listened to you and discussed your comments, but you’ve got blinkers on because you keep ignoring the things that you can’t counter with rhetoric.

    We evolved here because it was a suitable environment for us to do so. It’s pure chance that we’re on this planet instead of one in another galaxy, looking at our Sun from somewhere else. As I said before, there are enough stars to enable you to make any pattern you like – different cultures have different constellations using the same stars. The names of the constellations or stars are nothing to do with anything – people gave them those names based on what they looked like, or myths and legends.

    Thanks for enlightening me about Adam and Eve’s progeny, I’ve not heard that version before and I didn’t get it from my reading of the bible – but it’s not what I’d call conclusive evidence and one minor point amongst hundreds is not going to change my mind unfortunately.

    As I’ve said before, I don’t accept the bible as truth, so spouting of sections of it is not going to sway me. It doesn’t prove anything.

    I do not reject the bible because it speaks against homosexuality, I reject the bible because I think it’s a flawed moral handbook at best and a badly written fairytale at worst.

    @ Mel

    If you think that we will have to face judgement after we die, let us get on with it. Far from being bitter, we have embraced life and love who we want to love without fear of reproach or punishment from some unknown father figure – we are happier now for not having to worry about going to hell later.

    For the last time, we don’t HATE God or the bible, we don’t care.

  131. Brad you say you dont hate God, or the bible. If you believe the bible is a fairy tale then you dont believe in God because it says in John 1 v 1’In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS GOD. So how can you hate God when you dont believe in God. Regarding evolution – What most people dont realize is, that Darwin repented on his knees, about everything he taught regarding evolution and humbly received Christ as his personal savior. He lived in misery for 20 years before repenting of everything he taught. You will notice that THIS is not taught in the universities. Sad, that so many people are still deceived by the doctrine he taught. So even Darwin is against you. ha ha 🙂 Get out of that one!!!

  132. Mel said..

    “You make God out that he is someone cold and stands with a big rule book”

    No actually YOU do that. All the unpleasantness you’ve spouted in the last few days was apparantly God’s word according to your warped view of the Bible. I wonder what real Christians would make of you and your misrepresentation of their faith. Why don’t you pay attention to proper biblical scholars who would think your version of Christianity is as far from the truth as you can get. As I say, I can rest assured that people like you who have taken literal text from the Bible to justify the most inhumane treatment of people over the years are a tiny minority: nut bars who bear no resemblance to real Christians at all.

  133. @ Mel – This is getting tedious. You’re preaching to both the indifferent and the converted, which surely wastes your time. You don’t have the basic intelligence to debate properly, and don’t answer legitimate questions in return. For ****’s sake even if Darwin did convert to Christianity (on his deathbed, and it’s far from certain), the science was and remains fundamentally correct. It was a theory which was tested on empirical evidence, which brought about a conclusion. That basic point undermines the entire thread of Biblical fundamentalism and shows creationism and ‘intelligent’ design up as the fake sciences which they are. To insist that the Garden of Eden story is entirely true is pretty ridiculous, again when the evidence proves that man originated in its current form in both China and Africa.

    So how can you hate God when you dont believe in God.

    Read. He never said he hated ‘God’. Nor do I. Doing so would presume at least in part the existence of some deity, which I do not.

    And who are you to end this debate anyway!

    Well it’s my blog, so it’s for me to decide. Considering how abusive you’ve been on it, I’d be grateful you’re still able to post.

  134. @ Mel

    I have already said I don’t believe in God, I don’t hate God. What’s your point? You are just confirming what I have already said.

    And as for Darwin, regardless of what he may or may not have done in his later years, and even with all we still have to learn about evolution and gaps in the fossil record, it still makes more sense than a spontaneous creation of the world for us humans by God. I base my opinions on a lot more than just Darwin’s word – if I only took that as gospel (i.e. something someone else had told me) I’d be as bad as you guys. Darwin is not my God, the theory of evolution is not my bible.

    If Darwin lived in misery it’s because he was battling to be heard in a world that was determined to stay in the dark ages.

    This isn’t a trap. There’s nothing for me to get out of.

  135. Nope gave up on hate Mel, to tiring and consuming. I just stopped being afraid. If there is a judgment I don’t really care or think one could prepare other than being true to ones self. So it just stopped mattering.

    It’s funny how you discount works, feeding the poor, helping the sick, etc for blind devotion at ( i assume church) that somehow sitting in a building is holier than going out and doing something to make the world better. Maybe you should think about that a bit more, maybe ask your preacher cause you even got that wrong. “Faith without works is empty”

    But here we are wandered so far from the topic, which is whether Iris spouted off some offensive and hateful speech at her own constituents. Here in the US it’s not a crime, we figure we’d rather know what you really think than just hear what you think we want to hear. But calling her out on it, demanding that she understand how wrong she is, that’s important. Your fellow citizens have rights and demand to be treated fairly, that includes not being labeled an abomination when engaged in legal, sanctioned relationships. Whether or not your religion and religious writings have lead you to believe that gays are wrong you should still deal civilly and with kindness, seeking to learn instead of pretending to understand. Gays wrestle with these questions all their lives and for you to come in and spout nonsense like, “adam and Steve” or we should just turn off our feelings and get a wife shows that you truly have no idea what your talking about. Have you ever thought about how the woman would feel when they found out we could never truly get emotionally attached. That even strangers could make us more excited than they ever could? What are they to do since we can’t sexually gratify them? Are they suppose to just muscle through as well? Would you deny us the chance to experience love, the end all be all of your entire message simply because you don’t understand?
    Here’s a question, do you have children?
    Do you understand the basics of human reprogramming? Have you ever read about what happened to the test subjects of Donald Ewen Cameron, and how they lost everything when he erased their minds. Including memories of their children, husbands, family. Essentially he killed them and they had to develop new identities. That is what you are recommending for us. Probably without even knowing it. And if sexual preference is genetic or hormonally induced in the womb it wouldn’t change anything anyway. Long standing studies have also shown that regressive therapy, where you essentially try to “pray the gay away” don’t work either, there are numerous groups like Exodus that will gladly take your money and tell you that they can change you, only to say that change actually just means that you still have the same feelings but if you keep praying God will make you like women too. (here’s a hint that doesn’t work either).
    So since science, prayer, hope, and faith won’t change our sexual identity couldn’t it possibly be that we simply like men? That god doesn’t care? that you don’t need to worry? in fact why are you worried? Are you concerned because you harbor feelings for men and want to believe that gays just don’t care enough about changing? Are you really so devote that you spend hours on gay blogs trying to convert them? I’m not trying to be rude I’m just trying to understand you adamant yet misguided opinions that aren’t changing or helping anyone.

  136. I hear what your saying, and im not going to argue with you, Brad, cosmodaddy, James or Romach. I dont spend hours on gay sites trying to convert you. But i simply came on to tell you about a saviour, to witness as a born again christian as the Bible teaches to go out into the world and preach the gospel and to not hide your light under a bushel. But you’s have all made your mind up and nothing i say, no scripture i quote, no evidence i produce is every goin to change your mind, or make you understand that what you are doing is wrong in Gods eyes. But when judgement day comes God will mention my name to all of you and will not give you a second chance. You completed rejected his son and so you will be cast into hell for eternity and seperated from God and Satan will be delighted to see you burn.

    If you have a Bible Tim i suggest you read Revelation. We are in the LAST of the last days and Jesus will be returning very soon to gather his elect.

    God Bless. 🙂

    Mel

  137. @ Mel

    That’s a bit of a cop-out, I was looking for some answers from you but as usual the questions have been ignored.

    You are right, quoting scripture cannot change our minds because we do not recognise the authority. You may as well be singing songs to us. You cannot produce evidence, that’s the whole point – your faith is just that, faith. There is no definitive proof either way about the existence of God or the veracity of the bible. I cannot dissuade you from it any more than you can persuade me to it. The difference is, I have actual reasons for my opinion, and can argue them properly.

    I am in no way saying that you should live your life any other way, and if the bible and it teaching makes you happy, then I wish you happiness. I chose to believe other than you, but it does not make me a bad person and I deserve the same respect as anyone else from people like Iris Robinson – which is the whole point of this blog post.

  138. Andrew Wilson

    Ok Tim I am guessing that you are high on drugs or something cause you have contradicted yourself so many times in that post.

    Are you a Christian or not???? You claim the bible is not the inspired word of God but you somehow accept parts how do you know what parts to accept?? Especially when the bible says ‘Thy word is Truth’ ‘All Scripture is God breathed’ Jesus said ‘I am the way, the truth and the life’

    If the bible contradicts itself we can totally disregard it, but it doesn’t. I have a question for you…have you ever been to the middle east?? I would think no cause no.1 the muslims would have killed you for being gay, Secondly if you have been you will know that people greet each other with a kiss this is in no way gay I can assure you.

    You quoted Paul the apostle the same man that penned Romans Ch1 condemning homosexuality as a sin, he was talking about a God ordained passion between a woman and a man…duh!!

    As for Mr Dawkins book if you laugh at parts good, why read the words of a man about history when he wasn’t there and can only guess as to how things happened…I’d rather read Gods book cause He was there and made it happen much more accurate…

    As for masturbating and your other garbage this is the evidence of lust in your life, as it is written in Titus ‘to the pure all things are as pure and to the defiled all things are as defiled’…it is an assumption to say because you do something everyone else does it…

    Cosmos you are a pratt, firstly you deny the bible, you say the word blasphemy means nothing to you….Then you begin to reccomend bible scholars to me??? Whats that all about it proves you cook these things in your own head to suit the moment and try to defend your own undefensable position its called clutching at straws….

    I have been in many debates in my lifetime and never have met such a load of idiots!!! You guys haven’t got the first clue about what you are saying or talking about…Tim leaves a church because of rules and then says the bible allows lawlessness and homosexuality, Cosmos denies the bible and then recommends a bible teacher

    The bible recommends the Holy Spirit as the best bible teacher cause He is the spirit of truth, as for other christians being against me, don’t give me that crap there are false christians who do not obey Gods word like a ford mondeo with a mercedes badge it doesn’t make them one….how they stand by the bible decides if they are truly His or not cause the bible say’s ‘my sheep hear my voice and the voice of another they will not follow’ The bible sorts these people out…

    You think I am somehow friendless and unpopular, well again another assumption…at my church 3,000 attend Sunday morning and night, Iris Robinson was saved there and everyone of us are behind her, alongside a great many others so do not think that this will dissapear, every Sunday morning and evening since 1973 souls have been saved in our church, people have left their homosexuality and lived for God proving that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation!!!

    So you guys no doubt will come back at this like an ostrich with your head in the sand denying it all yet again telling me I have no Christian attitude when you aren’t one so how can you tell??? and round and round it will go…

    To quote Johny Cash I am saved how do I know??? I was there when it happened and can confirm it so…..

    For now don’t reply to this message I am doing what brother Malachi kindly advised me to do, I’m shaking the dust off my feet….and I hope you all get right if not I’ll be there on judgement day and you may say we didn’t know and the Lord will call me over and say didn’t you tell em, I’ll say yes…they mocked me, denied you and together we will laugh at your calamity according to the verses that brother Malachi quoted…its real make no mistake about it….

    Good bye…..here’s the dust

  139. Well done Andrew Wilson. I back you up. Amen!!!

  140. @ Andrew

    Cosmos you are a pratt, firstly you deny the bible, you say the word blasphemy means nothing to you….Then you begin to reccomend bible scholars to me???

    Are you on drugs? I did no such thing. Was that a post along the lines of where the so-called banner you mentioned was as well?

    Secondly if you have been you will know that people greet each other with a kiss this is in no way gay I can assure you.

    French men kiss one another in greeting. It also doesn’t make them gay. Russian women hold hands in the street. It doesn’t make them gay. What is your point?

    Good bye…..here’s the dust

    You’ve said goodbye before but your fragile ego wouldn’t let you stay away then either. Bet you can’t help yourself after this, particularly considering your reading comprehension isn’t that great. Isn’t that (regrettably) part of the whole problem here though?

    @ Mel

    But when judgement day comes God will mention my name to all of you and will not give you a second chance.

    You really are full of yourself aren’t you? When is this judgment day again by the way? Where is your ‘God’? Where is your ‘Heaven’? The ‘Devil’? ‘Hell’? In space? In the earth’s crust? Sitting in a cloud? So many places available and yet no sign. I’ll take my chances. I’m sad that your cup is constantly half empty, waiting for a time of destruction, endings, violence and hate which will never happen. Imagine how distraught you’ll be on your deathbed, realising the whole thing was sheer belief in a fairy tale. A waste of a life. Hopefully you’ll figure it out before then though.

  141. in the US there is a bumper sticker that states “every knee shall bow” at first it seemed really innocuous to me and harmless but over time I have come to the conclusion that it’s a very negative passive aggressive response to other people’s doubt. Mel’s continual threat of our eventual surprise at judgment day strikes me the same. A sort of, “I won’t kill you but my god will so take that.” In fact I think it’s very telling of the way the person conceives of their own religion as the smart thing to do because by aping the scriptures and toeing the biblical line otherwise they will be devoured by fire in hell. Oddly though Jesus doesn’t mention this kind of hell for sinners, in fact he simply says they will locked out of the kingdom, trapped outside the warmth of heaven to paraphrase. It was Paul and later the Book of revelations that led people to this sort of dread tread mill attitude of constantly struggling against damnation, forgetting the fact that people like King David, Moses, and the other great prophets had all had significant lapse in their faith and been forgiven because of the attitude at the end of their lives. In fact continual forgiveness is the promise of christ in exchange for keeping his memory.
    Still I don’t believe in divine inspiration so it’s moot for the most part to me except when you get into conversations with people like this. I was faced with the fact that my own individual life was in conflict with what i was suppose to believe therefore they had to be wrong not me.

  142. Andrew Wilson

    Tim Get a bible and read it before you make a sweeping statement!!!!

    Jesus is the speaker here:
    13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (13:41-42, 49-50)
    “The furnace of fire”
    Jesus will send his angels to gather up “all that offend” and they “shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

    The End of the World
    13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

  143. Andrew Wilson

    They have to be wrong not you Tim????? You can’t even quote the bible right better check up on that 🙂

  144. My bad andrew, I was referring to the “lord Lord speech” you are correct in this one. still I already have a bible and Like i said read it several times. Still can’t believe it’s accurate or divine. Being old and popular is no more a proof of validity than the catholics vaunted and deadly defense of the earth centric scientific view. How many would YOU kill to defend your belief system?

    Yes they had to be wrong Andrew, I carefully and empirically weighed the evidence, you oppose that evidence because it contradicts what you believe. Just like our ancestors slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people who had come to believe the wrong thing, you close your minds to outside possibilities because you cannot stand to change.
    Look at the sheer numbers only 2.6%-3% of all males are likely to be gay, however those numbers hold for all populations on the planet. Were this an isolated event with different countries having different percents than you would have an argument that this was not a natural occurrence within the human species. You cannot tell me that you honestly expect me to believe that your god regularly and throughout time automatically wants you to kill (old testament rules) them because he made an oops in the genetic code? You cannot pray this away, you cannot threaten us back into the closet, it doesn’t change the facts, gays exist, have always existed and will exist until someone figures out what makes us gay. For you nature and history have to fit a preconceived idea of how things work. That’s now how things really work, thats how our unenlightened ancestors pieced things together. The sun revolved around the world, because Joshua told the sun to hold in the sky, did you ever wonder how that would have worked? Or did you just say, “wow god’s really powerful he stopped the universal swirl of gravity so that more people could die, cool.” I can’t follow any belief that expects blind unquestioning faith. Nor will care if you chastise me with a book of scriptures that I don’t follow. That’s like bitching at you for not being faithful to the Koran.

  145. Andrew Wilson

    Final comment Tim I would kill none to defend it, God died for me and I don’t have to defend His cause that way….God can stand up for Himself…

    The rest isn’t worth commenting on as I’ve proved you wrong and still you keep going even if I did it again it wouldn’t matter

  146. Mel said…

    “Well done Andrew Wilson. I back you up. Amen!!!”

    You said something similar about Iris Robinson.

    You’re not just anti-homosexuality – you take some sick pleasure from knowing others are as well.

  147. God can stand up for Himself…

    And yet your incessant whining suggests otherwise. If you really believe that then you’ve got nothing more to add, surely?

    I’ve proved you wrong

    I’m not sure on what. You’ve been proven wrong about pretty much everything you’ve pontificated about in the last few days. Go on, reply. Prove your hypocrisy in the span of just one post.

  148. Andrews asked…

    “So you guys no doubt will come back at this like an ostrich with your head in the sand denying it all yet again telling me I have no Christian attitude when you aren’t one so how can you tell”

    Andrew we all have access to exactly the same information as you in order to form our opinions. Just because you call yourself a Christian it doesn’t automatically elevate you to some higher level of knowledge. There isn’t a special formula or ritual or long period of study required to be a Christian. It’s simply a matter of what you truly believe in your heart.

  149. Mel said…

    “no scripture i quote, no evidence i produce is every goin to change your mind, or make you understand that what you are doing is wrong in Gods eyes”

    You’re dead right Mel.

    1. You have no evidence.

    2. Your biggest problem is when you quote scriptures. Indeed you become quite dangerous with a Bible in your hand because you don’t understand it. You’ve failed to grasp that the word of your God isn’t just letters and words on a page. The word of you God is the meaning behind the words not just the ink on the page – and in that respect, all credible biblical scholars are in agreement that historical interpretation is absolutely essential, and taking the words literally (i.e man should not lie with man) with no attempt to understand further, is ignorant and blind and is a blatant misrepresentation of your God’s word to suit your own weird fixation with what people do in bed.

  150. DIE THREAD!! DIE DIE DIE!!!!

    heh
    “when God, when will i see the sailboat!!!!”

  151. Andrew said..

    “This is why you dislike Iris and reject the bible as it speaks against homosexuality”

    Andrew, as you know, in your Bible you’ll find no commandments re: sex in same-gender relationships – simply some rather vague references – the meanings and implications of which are disputed.

    I find myself wondering why you are seemingly so fixated with homosexuality when it’s clearly not a major issue in the Bible and I ask if you apply the same level of debating ferocity to anything else?

  152. Considering this thread could go on forever, I’m not sure I’m bothered by the answer. I think we all will defend areas of argument in which our identity is enshrined – in that Andrew, Mel, Malachi and others understandably stand up for their fellow Christian whom I attacked. But we should all remember I think my first reply:

    the point of the blog however is when people use that religious viewpoint as a weapon. Society is not governed by scripture, it’s governed by the rule of law, and we are all equal before the law. If I am not allowed to promote hatred towards you for being a Christian, Iris Robinson is equally not allowed to promote hatred towards me as a gay man. There’s no ‘opt out’ clause just because you happen to follow one of many religions.

    And there really isn’t, folks. You may fool yourselves into thinking that your so-called ‘divine law’ supersedes the rule of the nation state but it does not. That thinking led to 9/11, 7/7, suicide bombings galore and other atrocities. You may say that those acts were committed by Muslims, but it is the belief of Muslims in an interpretation of an immutable, unquestionable ‘divine law’ which allows that to happen. Look in the mirror if you can.

  153. Cosmodaddy said..

    “If I am not allowed to promote hatred towards you for being a Christian, Iris Robinson is equally not allowed to promote hatred towards me as a gay man. There’s no ‘opt out’ clause just because you happen to follow one of many religions”

    I agree – although I’m not particularly happy that a having a faith in something should be protected in law – especially bearing in mind it takes nothing to say you are a Christian other than believing something – which by it’s very nature, can’t be proved.

  154. Cosmos God can stand up for Himself….how? The bible….it says how shall they hear if no one will preach, how shall he go except he be sent!!! There it is in black and white….

    Tim you claimed to know the bible and used it to justify your life style then went to say Jesus didn’t mention Hell in this way so I gave it to you in black and white!!!

    The bible is vague about homosexuality???
    Leviticus 18:22″Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    What is vague about that, this is what Iris quoted!!!!!!
    1st Cor Ch 6 v 9
    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God Be not deceived neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor abusers of themselves with mankind (homosexuals)

    What is vague about that….

    Tim you claimed to know and use the bible to justify your lifestyle and the told me to go to better bible scholars???? I have never used the Koran in any of this so that comment is invalid………

    Cosmos when did Iris promote hatred??
    She simply said it was an abomination like the bible states and that the participators are need of help which is true, she never said, kill them or hurt them…I am puzzled why you take her statements as a threat?????

    You say the bible by its very nature can not be proved…why then is it in your governmental constitution, why did Queen Victoria at the height of the British Empire reach it to an indian boy and say her is the secret to Britains greatness, after this Britain and today America have disregarded this book and are paying the consequences Al quida are defeating them both and they are experiencing the fires of judgement as a result the heathen is in the land…

    History prooves it…..if the bible isn’t true there would be no Jewish nation in Isreal today I can prove the bible you close ur eyes and ignore the facts, even the inca people in their legends have the story of Noahs flood as do the aboriginies in Australia both unreached by the gospel until recently…..

    You say how can you refute a false positive…ever think about how idiotic that statement is??? if it is a flase positive you can proove it to be a negative!!! duh! and build your case from there but it isn’t so like Hitler once said…..’tell a lie…tell it big enough and long enough and people will believe it….trouble is you end up believeing it yourself….there you stand….You can not disprove the bible not has been ever able to do that…Hitler wanted to erase the memory of the Jewish people of the earth so does Iran today, but he didn’t stop them returning from 1918 and having their own state by 1948 and becoming a nation again according to bible prophesy….

    The bible says this generation shall not pass until I come again, a generation in Noahs day was 120 yrs so you have I’d say until about 2035 maximum…ha ha then He shall appear the days shall be shortened for the elects sake…..

    Fix the false positive statement go on….

  155. Where do you see this thread going? Did you choose to ignore my last post? We can dance around crap like this forever and get nowhere – your belief stops your position being open to any scrutiny at all. Your ideas are fixed and unchanging, and you believe your rightness – evidence doesn’t come into it. It makes you dangerous. You say, as did your pal Mel, that you don’t hate gay people, you just hate what we do. Well get stuffed Andrew. What we do is an intrinsic aspect of who we are. You’d probably think me insane if I hated the fact that you had sex with women – you’d be right – you’d complain I didn’t take you as an individual. That you can’t return that basic compliment shows what sort of person you really are.

    Yup you’re right I shorthanded my reply on false positives far too quickly. Let me make my point as clear as I can for you – there are texts which back some historical aspects of the New Testament up. Yes, that’s true. Unluckily for you your hate mongering is in the Old Testament, which you have to prove the historical veracity of to make your case. You take those words, their meanings and the translations on faith, you refuse to critically evaluate them, or question whether or not they even happened. Sadly you’re not prepared to do any of that, you’re an intellectual coward. Please prove to me that the Adam and Eve story happened. Please prove to me that your ‘God’ spoke to Moses. For that matter prove the virgin birth and resurrection. You can’t. And because you can’t your literalism is just a stupid waste of time.

    Eating birds of prey, eating shellfish, cross breeding livestock, picking up sticks on a Saturday, planting a mixture of seeds in a field, and wearing clothing that is a blend of two textiles are examples of acts of ritual impurity which made a Child of Isreal unclean.

    Do you expend similar amounts of venom against people eating shellfish in restaurants or are you really just obsessed with homosexuality?

  156. Andrew Wilson

    Moses is easy Cosmos he built Ramah the treasure city in Egypt, history records this fact alongside the bible, in the red sea they have taken out chariots known to be that of pharoh and his top men they were covered in pure gold again these are on display and history records it, the talmod the Jewish religion all prove Moses need I say more???

    Adam and Eve simple there was a garden called Eden in modern day Iraq, their first son was a murderer, and sin is in everyone of us again proof…..

    Cosmos can you not read? My second scripture was from 1st Corinthians this is not in the old testament in anyones bible?????? duh!!!

    Eating shellfish is easy too it is a guideline other wise known as a food law they carry parasites and diseases that carry to man like pork being a protein deficient in a major amino acid that we need call niceen this can be linked to cancers there is a worm in it that even modern medicine can’t kill….fact again…cross breeding of livestock deminises the charactaristics of the breed a common mistake in modern livestock and dairy farming today we are short of fresh blood lines to get the performance we need so dairy cows are culled on their 4th lactation proving that we can barely grow enough replacements big problem in USA where they import 30% of their dairy heifers from Canada Fact check it with Neil Armstrong dairy practioner for OMAF.

    Saturday was the sabbath of the old testament today that fits for Sunday ‘Remember the sabbath day to keep it Holy’ Blend two texitles and you have two different properties one with wear the other out, again a guideline law the would be subject to very different treatments to colour them and to stitch them.

    Virgin birth easy, Mary had not yet known Joseph or any man in physical sense, the bible says ‘God will provide Himself a Lamb’ Jesus said to the Pharasiees before Abraham was I am in another words Jesus preexisted Abraham in heaven showing himself to be God…..the garden tomb, the hill of Golgotha ‘the place of the skull’
    all in existence today roman history records the crucifixtion….the empty tomb with the stone rolled away the folded grave clothes and millions of people walking the earth today in light of this fact because Jesus is alive inside them today like me 🙂

    Furthermore someone said that they, felt that I came across as if my wisdom was superior…well yes the bible and wisdom that comes from that is superior in every way why again the bible says ‘the foolishness of God is greater than mans wisdom’ that is very evident here….you want to blame everything on the Old Testament as thats a get out clause to get watery Christians on side but it is as much in the New as in the Old….

  157. Andrew Wilson

    Anal intercourse is the sine qua non of sex for many gay men.22 Yet human physiology makes it clear that the body was not designed to accommodate this activity. The rectum is significantly different from the vagina with regard to suitability for penetration by a penis. The vagina has natural lubricants and is supported by a network of muscles. It is composed of a mucus membrane with a multi-layer stratified squamous epithelium that allows it to endure friction without damage and to resist the immunological actions caused by semen and sperm. In comparison, the anus is a delicate mechanism of small muscles that comprise an “exit-only” passage. With repeated trauma, friction and stretching, the sphincter loses its tone and its ability to maintain a tight seal. Consequently, anal intercourse leads to leakage of fecal material that can easily become chronic.

    The potential for injury is exacerbated by the fact that the intestine has only a single layer of cells separating it from highly vascular tissue, that is, blood. Therefore, any organisms that are introduced into the rectum have a much easier time establishing a foothold for infection than they would in a vagina. The single layer tissue cannot withstand the friction associated with penile penetration, resulting in traumas that expose both participants to blood, organisms in feces, and a mixing of bodily fluids.

    Furthermore, ejaculate has components that are immunosuppressive. In the course of ordinary reproductive physiology, this allows the sperm to evade the immune defenses of the female. Rectal insemination of rabbits has shown that sperm impaired the immune defenses of the recipient.23 Semen may have a similar impact on humans.24

    The end result is that the fragility of the anus and rectum, along with the immunosuppressive effect of ejaculate, make anal-genital intercourse a most efficient manner of transmitting HIV and other infections. The list of diseases found with extraordinary frequency among male homosexual practitioners as a result of anal intercourse is alarming:

    Anal Cancer
    Chlamydia trachomatis
    Cryptosporidium
    Giardia lamblia
    Herpes simplex virus
    Human immunodeficiency virus
    Human papilloma virus
    Isospora belli
    Microsporidia
    Gonorrhea
    Viral hepatitis types B & C
    Syphilis25

    Sexual transmission of some of these diseases is so rare in the exclusively heterosexual population as to be virtually unknown. Others, while found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners, are clearly predominated by those involved in homosexual activity. Syphilis, for example is found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners. But in 1999, King County, Washington (Seattle), reported that 85 percent of syphilis cases were among self-identified homosexual practitioners.26 And as noted above, syphilis among homosexual men is now at epidemic levels in San Francisco.27

    A 1988 CDC survey identified 21 percent of all Hepatitis B cases as being homosexually transmitted while 18 percent were heterosexually transmitted.28 Since homosexuals comprise such a small percent of the population (only 1-3 percent),29 they have a significantly higher rate of infection than heterosexuals.30

    Anal intercourse also puts men at significant risk for anal cancer. Anal cancer is the result of infection with some subtypes of human papilloma virus (HPV), which are known viral carcinogens. Data as of 1989 showed the rates of anal cancer in male homosexual practitioners to be 10 times that of heterosexual males, and growing. 30 Thus, the prevalence of anal cancer among gay men is of great concern. For those with AIDS, the rates are doubled.31

    Other physical problems associated with anal intercourse are:

    hemorrhoids
    anal fissures
    anorectal trauma
    retained foreign bodies.32

    And you say it is not an abomination…..Again Gods wisdom far better than yours my friend!!

    Here is medical fact……..why should I pay my taxes to accomodate the above??

  158. Andrew Wilson

    These three commands have the same general thought behind them. They move from concrete to intention, that is, from letter to spirit. The one regarding cloth is easiest to illustrate this principle. The specific application involves linen and wool, and Israel was not to mix the fibers from a vegetable product and an animal product into the same piece of material. It expands in its practical application when we understand that mixing animal and vegetable fibers makes poor quality material. Therefore, the intent—its spirit—is to teach us to purchase the best quality that we can afford.

    The same holds true with the other laws that appear in this context. God is instructing us that the best thing to do is to keep the breeds pure and not let hybrids develop. The pure breeds of a species are always considered to be of higher quality.

    The Law of the Lord is perfect making wise the simple……. proven yet again…God can defend himself through science because he made everything and understands it best 🙂 Jesus is wonderfull and I love Him with all my heart, Can learn more from the bible than Charles Dawkins I think…..again who wrote this….Moses proof again of His existence in that he wrote the first 5 books of the bible…

  159. I think you’re insane. I won’t dignify the previous post by even replying to it. No doubt whatever source you just plagiarised that from told you it was all true and legitimate, but as with the Bible you take the garbage you want, don’t critically evaluate it, and pass it off as fact. It’s the sign of a poor education, or at least a very weak personality, which is a shame. With all this passion you’re showing, you could turn out to be someone worthwhile, yet you’re just a coward grasping at straws. Anyone can leap to a text to back their mad opinions up – it doesn’t make them true, and you know what they say about statistics…

    God is instructing us that the best thing to do is to keep the breeds pure and not let hybrids develop. The pure breeds of a species are always considered to be of higher quality.

    This though is the worst thing you’ve said so far sadly. This is Nazism, and it’s regrettably not surprising that you’re of the far right. You can display your swastika someplace else sunshine – you’ve just overplayed your hand.

  160. Cosmodaddy said..

    “No doubt whatever source you just plagiarised that from told you it was all true and legitimate”

    You’re right Jase, it would appear that Andrew lifted all that stuff directly off a website called bibletools.org run by a Pastor from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania who’s as unpleasant as Phelps.

  161. Jason said..

    “This though is the worst thing you’ve said so far sadly. This is Nazism”

    Yep, that was also from Bibletools.org.

  162. Cosmos you can’t reply lets face it…to set a few other things straight my education must be ok they put me on television over here for being an innovator…I am well known in my country and lack of education is not something held against me….

    Firstly I am not American I live in Ireland, that is the country of my birth….I laugh at being called a Nazi, I most certainly am not a nazi, if I was I would hardly go on trips to Zimbabwe to help orphans preach the gospel and give food and clothing to those dying with aids….

    Not sure where bibletools.org is must look it up sometime at least you are now aware of what the bible says and teaches regarding this subject and where Iris’s comments were based…the bible lists homosexuality in the same list as fornication, adultery etc this is a fair fit…..

    Open your mouth a speak as the bible speaks and this is how you are labelled, thats what Jesus said would happen, if they hated me they will hate you, why because he is come to testify against this world and the evil that is in it…yet to save the lost those who would willingly give up their sin lust and other loves for Him…

    If I am accused of being uneducated and fall into the same category as Queen Victoria, Abraham Lincoln, Cromwell and others by believing that the bible is the sovereign word of God I am in good company, these me served their countries in the time of their finest hours, those hours are gone today because sin has so decayed our societies….

    To coin what the satanic bible say’s written by Alister Crowley in case you think I don’t read other books….’to do what thou wilt shall be the whole law’ this sits closer to what you are advocating…as the beatles put it if it feels good do it, but not everything that feels good is good….satan is referred to in the bible as having 7 heads, this is symbolic of perfect wisdom and is obviously wiser than u…how do I know this its easy….

    If I wanted to posion a dog and laid out straight posion the dog would not eat it….I would get a big juicy steak and lace it with the posion, the dog would bite into it thinking this is great and walk away satisfied not realising that a few hours later his life would be taken from him….this is what the bible teaches satan knows that sin separates people from God and so dresses it up in so many ways to make them bite into it….what do I say to that dog as he walks away satisfied I say you fool!!! you swallowed it down whole….for the wages of sin is death but thankfully the gift of God is eternal life….

    I am no Nazi and I oppose everything that Hitler stood for he was of His father the devil he was a murderer and killed 6 million Jews, how would I be a Nazi and love the Jewish nation???

    Again I have shown you the relevance of Gods word and supported it with fact and medical evidence I have risen to the occasion….I asked no one to reply and that would be it but like always people want to so convince themselves they speak without checking out what they are saying….you knew I’d quoted the New Testament don’t let the defense of homosexuality blind you to what is written….

    Cosmos you said something earlier that was accurate cause you believe it, you said that I said hate the sin and not the sinner…you then said but homosexuality is what defines you…I know what you are saying, alcohol and cigars was what use to define me….why??? cause it had me hooked and I was taking the posion so don’t think for one moment that I am condemning you as a person….I realised that was not what God created me to be….I realised that God was not against me personally only that part that was sin…I left it over 9 yrs ago and I can say that He satisfies more than it ever could, today I’m married have a home that is almost debt free and successfull business why? Not because of education but because the Son of man, Jesus of Nazereth looked my way 🙂

    God bless

  163. Not sure where bibletools.org is must look it up sometime

    Riiight.

    Firstly I am not American I live in Ireland

    Good for you. I figured that out for myself thanks.

    Again I have shown you the relevance of Gods word and supported it with fact and medical evidence I have risen to the occasion

    You haven’t. Thanks to James for picking that one apart so quickly.

    Why did you put the last paragraph together? Why do you think I need to know this? Do you need my validation for some reason?

    today I’m married have a home that is almost debt free and successfull business

    You have a successful business yet can’t spell worth a damn, nor construct a coherent sentence. Really? I also find it curious that you’re married yet you have this clear obsession with gay sex. Maybe that’s why you can’t stay away from this thread, no matter how many times you promise to leave.

  164. Andrew said…

    “Not sure where bibletools.org is must look it up sometime”

    Huge clumps of many of your posts are word for word what I found on Bibletools.org – the ultra right wing Christian resource website. You have even been consistent with the American spelling despite not being American which leads me to beleive it’s been straight copy and pasted.

  165. Andrew Wilson

    Cosmos you most certainly are on drugs…James picked nothing apart and neither could you, you couldn’t even reply to my answers!!!!

    Its like being defeated 4-0 in a football game and coming home and telling everyone that you’ve won…quite proturbing…

    I have no fascination with gay sex whatsoever, clearly demonstrated in the above why would I want an increased risk of having constant diahorea and go to a lost eternity??

    Again this underlines the fact that you love this sin so much that you will not see reason, the bible has been proved it is still the most sold and printed book in the world and even if it wasn’t, truth is not truth because of its popularity, it is because it simply is so….

    As for bible.org it must be a good site I haven’t been on it yet, what I wrote was out of the bible and from my own stand point….again what difference if I did use it, it still is so…

    Again straw clutching at straws to avoid the real points, you got this here and you got that there na nah na nah na are you 4yrs old????? Deal with the points duh!!!

    Again defeated and will you stop replying with this crap so I can go….

    bye happy 5th birthday wenever it arrives 🙂

  166. You’re a fraud. Married yet talking in that style? Educated, and running a successful business yet writing and spelling so poorly? I don’t think so. A liar for a start, obsessed for another (if you’re married you’re clearly neglecting your wife).

    I have no fascination with gay sex whatsoever, clearly demonstrated in the above why would I want an increased risk of having constant diahorea and go to a lost eternity??

    Do you understand the causes of diahorrea? Clearly not. And a lost eternity eh? Where might that be? ‘Hell’? Where exactly is that? Under the Earth’s crust? Where’s your ‘Heaven’ for that matter? No wonder you take such a long time to reply, you have to find increasingly inane sources to try to package your answers up as ‘science’ when they’re just garbage. I know how good James is with information Andrew, you’re lying when you pretend you don’t know where your disgrace of a cut/paste job came from (and I caught the admission – you can’t even lie well). Do you really think it’s scientific and in any way right merely because it’s seen print in some form? That’s exactly the way you treat the Bible. You read some utter fantasy which fits in with your bigoted, ignorant attitudes and believe a fit. It’s a cancer which has poisoned your worldview and I feel sorry for you.

    the bible has been proved it is still the most sold and printed book in the world and even if it wasn’t, truth is not truth because of its popularity, it is because it simply is so

    Yet again you say ‘it simply is so’, as in your ‘fact’ earlier about the virgin birth and resurrection. Truth is truth ‘because it simply is so’ eh? It’s exactly what your admission about the cut & past job admits to, and that’s exactly the point I made about Islamism earlier on – your devotion to an unquestioning and unquestionable belief prevents you from thinking for yourself or taking responsibility for your attitudes. I understand – it’s been part of the human condition for millennia – having others do your thinking for you. But that was in an age where we didn’t have the resources and understandings we do now. That you reject those makes you both shameful and backward. Considering what you said earlier about racial purity (which most certainly is Nazism you fraud), maybe you’re the element getting left behind…

    Again defeated and will you stop replying with this crap so I can go.

    I was discussing you last night, and noone could fathom why you can’t stay away, despite repeatedly promising to. You know your answers are nonsense (or at least those you deign to give), so you must know your audience here isn’t listening. Even Mel seems to have left – maybe Iris told her to stay away. Maybe you just get off on preaching (yet you’re not going to convert anyone), maybe you really just like insulting people (such a catch for your ‘wife’). Either way it says a great deal about you and your abiding fascination with gay sex.

  167. Cosmos has it ever registered that perhaps Mel has a life outside of the internet??? Perhaps she has more sense that I talking sense to the unsensable….

    I certainly didn’t cut and paste from bibletools.org…. the scriptures I took from esword on my computer it is simply the King James Bible on computer with accompanying greek and hebrew lexicans why not use modern technology….

    A nazi aims at racial purity well thats a funny thing to say, so then I take it that you admit to aiming at racial impurity??? Consitent with what I’ve said isn’t it, racial you say have I neglect black red or white no I haven’t…again you are using terminology very broadly….

    Who is being left behind??? You are my friend in the fact that who won’t even own up to medical facts that a weakened spincter results is crapping constantly 🙂 You haven’t yet addressed this….Abraham Lincoln was he then a nazi??? is that what you are saying??? Mr Wilberforce who stopped the slave trade using the bible is he a nazi??? Billy Graham a nazi that is so ridiculous…

    Can’t imagine Iris would tell her to stay away somehow theres hope, you make these statements to wind the thing up as you can not face the real points the real facts and the real issues anyone bringing evidence to the contrary is branded a nazi, Gods word from the bible is called bile and venom oh oh oh such terrible stuff only because you can not face it….so because you can’t stand it you spill out your hatred for it by calling it bitchy names….

    Are typing skills a sign of education, you will find joined up handwriting leaving letters out are actually the sign of someone with a thought train that is threaded together focusing on major issues instead of minor ones.

    Again you have to attack me because you can’t handle the points I’ve made through the bible, through medicine and through history….

  168. Andrew Wilson

    as for saying I have a cancer you do realise you are ten times more likely to have it on your backside before I ever have it 🙂 again is this all you can say?? a cancer, oh oh venom…oh oh bile…oh oh oh….mate that is called verbal diahorrea….

  169. I certainly didn’t cut and paste from bibletools.org…. the scriptures I took from esword on my computer it is simply the King James Bible on computer with accompanying greek and hebrew lexicans why not use modern technology

    Of course you didn’t. Except James doesn’t lie and you do.

    A nazi aims at racial purity well thats a funny thing to say, so then I take it that you admit to aiming at racial impurity???

    You don’t know even your modern history do you? Or are you that frighteningly in denial? I don’t even understand the last comment, I’m not sure you do either.

    You are my friend in the fact that who won’t even own up to medical facts that a weakened spincter results is crapping constantly 🙂 You haven’t yet addressed this

    And yet I have so many times. You just chose to ignore the reality and stick with your cancerous belief. It’s a claim which isn’t borne out by the reality, but you don’t want to hear it because you’d have to abandon the hateful, religiously and racially pure ideology which you are poisoned with.

    you make these statements to wind the thing up as you can not face the real points the real facts and the real issues anyone bringing evidence to the contrary is branded a nazi

    Nope. Firstly the comments you made about racial purity were entirely Nazist. I have a friend who specialises in the history who may post to this thread, so you might get an education. It’s a sad lesson of history though that you appear to need one. Also the real facts on the subject you seem so obsessed with – homosexuality and gay sex – are with those people who are gay and have gay sex because our lives define the reality you’re so desperate to deny. You’re wrong because both sides of an argument aren’t objectively right, nor are they of equal merit.

    Again you have to attack me because you can’t handle the points I’ve made through the bible, through medicine and through history….

    Except you’re a fraud. You haven’t proven that the fairy story elements of the Bible are scientific facts, which you claimed. You have posted a cut & paste job from a source based on hate and ignorance on the medical front, and your grasp of history is tenuous at best. Your points are without merit, and there’s nothing you can do to change that. You still haven’t said why you continue to post – you won’t prove your arguments right, you won’t convert a soul to your warped way of thinking, and you’ll only continue to embarrass yourself and your religion the more stupid things you say…

    mate that is called verbal diahorrea

    So you’re only on to trade insults? Does that make you feel like a man (if that’s what you are – which I doubt)?

  170. Andrew Wilson :
    I do feel for you, with your poor understanding of how sexually transmitted diseases are actually transmitted, or where they come from. You see, you could catch those in a variety of ways, and it’s not just homosexual men who are at most risk. In fact, should you wish to study the information available, you will find that the largest growth in HIV infections is with heterosexual women. So make of that what you will.

    Perhaps when you have some statements or questions that have come from your own mind, I’ll be more willing to listen. Until you can stop regurgitating others nonsense, I’ll not.

    Mel :
    I find it hard to believe you are a Christian with any great understanding of the words in the bible. Not only are you unpleasant and rude, you are not willing to see other people’s points of view or listen to their statements. I would like to think that, if a Jesus existed, you would not be one of his ‘elect’ as you put it. A god of any sort would surely prefer fair minded people who know their own minds than someone who would blindly follow instruction in the hope of gaining salvation.

    I’m not religious, in fact I’m an atheist, and I’m also a gay man, but I’m not evil. Or dying of pestilence.

    I don’t begrudge anyone their opinion, but nobody in a position of power has the right to make statements like Iris did and expect to get away with it. See also Ruth Kelly and Opus Dei, or Tony Blair and his Catholicism. Even he, with his megalomaniacal tendencies towards the end of his tenure as PM, still felt he should keep his personal faith separate from the work he was doing.

  171. Andrew said …

    “I certainly didn’t cut and paste from bibletools.org”…. the scriptures I took from esword on my computer it is simply the King James Bible on computer…”

    I don’t believe you Andrew.

    Lots of what you’ve written is just too much the same as what the Pastor wrote on that website for it to be a coinidence. Even things like American spellings have been carried across (why would you use American spelling when you were quick to point out you aren’t American?). Furthermore, even the use of hyphens is exactly the same.

    Lets take what you wrote on “5.58 on 21 June as an example:-

    It’s all here, word for word..

    http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/3301/eVerseID/3301

  172. Andrew Wilson

    Ok cosmos a cancerous beleif I would turn that around and say that is what you have when medical evidence says that Gay men are 10 times more likely to develop Anal Cancer……

    James again I would say grow up a little I didn’t copy it from bible tools I wrote my own account stating more or less the same then to back it up went to another site got it so copied that, another site must have used bible tools or it is out a publication on this matter that they both took it, it still answered the question about mixed fibres didn’t it!!! Again 4 yr old defense of an arguement to start a witch hunt and avoid the facts that the bible is relevant…

    You all focus on where did the information come from rather than the answers it provides, then brand it nazi because some air head says so, the nazi’s murder I do not…when did I say gas gay people or lock them in a prison camp??? never…

    As for Tony Blair he is no example to follow, not much of a faith if it doesn’t affect your whole life, the bible says be ye doer’s of the word and not hearers only, Tony who lied about weapons of mass destruction and plumped our country into massive debt and over borrowing….Tony who lets murders out of Jail early and cuts pensions to the army yeah great lead….hmmm

    You will accuse me whatever I say lets face it, because it is in stark opposion to how you are living…..Abraham Lincoln was a Nazi then huh?? He called a national day of prayer….Gee Queen Elizabeth must be one too cause she is head of the church of England 🙂 see where such a snappy thing takes you, so too must have been Martin Luther King cause he unquestionably beleived the bible….

    Why don’t you name and shame all the Nazis??? put my name in there I’d love to be associated with these men great men of God….

    John the baptist pointed to Herod the Teriarch who had his brother Philips wife to himself and said ‘it is unlawfull for you to have her’ what was the result she said ‘off with his head’ John the baptist must have been a Nazi too….

    Because I have pointed to you and said it is an abomination to live like this before men and before God, it is unlawfull and have backed it from the bible you point the finger back and shout Nazi in another words off with his head!!! Which comes back to what I said at the start the Gay community will insist on the imprisonment of anyone who speaks against them and cry off with their heads, what is called the Gospel of Jesus Christ will become termed intolerance, God has never tolerated sin….

    Because it is the last days it is so, so here we sit ready for peace and ready for war, the dark ages were not recorded in history as the times you have spoken off they were recorded as the days when the bible was chained to the pulpit written only in Latin so no one could read and understand, people had to pay money to get to heaven and the abomination of the Mass was ordered upon people…If you spoke against it you burned at the stake….

    This sounds familiar to what you want, ‘off with Iris Robinsons head, limit free speech punish people for saying such things burn them at the stake…..you are bringing the dark ages back not me…

    Again I say the word of the Lord is good, you say it is evil, I call it Truth you say lie…so you want it removed I can assure you it will stay, ‘for the word of the Lord abideth forever, heaven and earth pass away but it shall never pass away’

    My friend it is you who has the Nazi attitude not I, you want to sodomise the world, I want the world to Know and love Jesus of Nazereth who got the victory over sodomy at Golgotha…

    For all the 4 year olds forget the source and deal with the material….bibletools right wing christian organisation wow whats going to happen the Sunday School going to kill you all or something??? What a stupid statement

  173. Andrew Wilson

    One last question James if you knew about bibletools.org and had read the answer to the question why did you ask such a stupid question in the 1st place???

    Wonder why I question your ability to hold a proper debate??? And the IQ behind such idiocy??

  174. Andrew Wilson

    Dave the hetrosexuals that you are talking about are having sex outside of Wedlock and sleeping with various partners, given your late addition to this topic you have missed the fact that we stand against that the same as against a homosexual relationship, and I said they both fell under the same category in the bible…

    Again Dave you call Mel unchristian, what defines a christian who you want them to be or who God wants them to be??? What did Jesus say to the Pharasiees, oh you awful people?? No Jesus said ‘ye den of vipers’, again so did John the baptist saying ‘who told you to flee from the wrath which is to come’ Jesus also said ‘go tell that fox Herod’

    King David said ‘go slay everyman that pisseth against the wall’. I wonder again what bible you read, Jesus also said ‘I am come not to bring peace but a sword’

    If you are an athiest I would stick to that instead of trying to condemn Christians when you clearly haven’t read much of the bible…you see again an assumption that we are flowery and a walk over, our Master carried a cross to Golgotha and hung and suffered there, He chose it with every breath he never tried to avoid it….

    The same Master knotted a rope and cleared out the temple….again read all of the bible before you decide what a Christian should be….A christian should be someone who suits Christ 1st and man 2nd and if he or she can not suit man then only suit Christ…

  175. Andrew Wilson

    44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Look above Dave here is what Jesus said to His accusers, not very flowery language is it…

    You tell Mel she is not the elect, who decides that you or God? A lot of arrogance in that statement, Jesus said ‘come unto me all ye who are weak and heavy laden and I will give you rest’ If any man come to me I will in no wise cast him or her out!!!

    So wise up….let God be true and every man a liar…

    Your weapon is to brandish anyone who opposes you a Nazi, when infact by limiting free speech and silencing people are doing the very works of the Nazi camp…I say give free speech to everyone including Muslims if they say bomb and kill we know where we stand, I do not fear it….

    You want to be able to blaspheme the name of Jesus in public and air your dirty laundry in public fine, then we are allowed to protest that move and have our say as a public right….if the muslims disagree let them speak….bring it on….

    Hide behind the nazi slogan if u want for in so doing you will become one…

  176. Can I ask, from your perspective, what would you consider a ‘normal’ relationship? What would you consider to be Christian and unchristian in terms of relationships, sexuality and sexual behaviour?

    I could point out that it was the people claiming to be religious who started the mudslinging, but I and others are happy to sling back if you so desire.

    And don’t assume to know anything about me from reading one reply to a thread of comments, you have no idea what I have or haven’t read of the bible.

  177. Andrews said..

    “One last question James if you knew about bibletools.org and had read the answer to the question why did you ask such a stupid question in the 1st place???”

    I didn’t know anything about bibletool.org until you posted things from it. You see, some of your comments were inconsistent in the way and style they were written which led me to beleive they weren’t all your own words, but those of well known antagonist Pastor John Ritenbaugh from the Church of the Great God in USA , who made that spin off website as a tool (weapon?) for people like you. He also pops up on TV quite a bit when there’s any unpleasantness to be said and like you, no matter what it it, he always says it’s the word of God.

  178. Andrews said…

    “Because I have pointed to you and said it is an abomination to live like this before men and before God, it is unlawfull and have backed it from the bible”

    Andrew, some people here don’t care what the Bible says because they don’t have faith in it like you.

    Others who do, think your interpretation of it is inconsistent to suit your own arguments. For example (and we keep coming back to this) – you never fail to use the word of your God ‘literally’ when you speak of homosexuality, but when it comes to lots of other things in the Bible you do take more of historical interpretation.

    As I’ve said before, why is it that you straight away take a literal meaning to things like the story of the Sodomites, whereas you take a more balanced interpretation when it comes to things like slavery or chopping peoples hands off as a remedy for temptation? It’s all very convenient for you to pick and choose when to try and interpret the meaning behind some of the things in the Bible and when to just take the words for how you think they sound, but consistency is they key here.

  179. Welcome Dave.

    These people move the goalposts often, so when trying to get clarity, you may end up banging your head against a wall. For example, I asked Mel why she thinks Homosexuality is an ‘abomination’ and she told me about the story of the sin of Sodam.

    However, when I said that I’ve never had anal sex, she changed her mind and said that – just simply love between two men is an abomination – period. She couldn’t tell me where it says that in the Bible, but it gives you an idea as to the type of Christians we have here.

  180. Andrews said

    “…I say give free speech to everyone including Muslims if they say bomb and kill we know where we stand”

    If all this stuff is really representative of Christianity today, I’d like to chat to your Pastor/Victor/Priest. I wonder if you’ll tell us what church you go to? You see, I don’t think this is the kind of thing they’ll be saying and I wonder if they know how you misrepresent the faith so badly.

  181. Which comes back to what I said at the start the Gay community will insist on the imprisonment of anyone who speaks against them and cry off with their heads, what is called the Gospel of Jesus Christ will become termed intolerance, God has never tolerated sin….

    Are you aware that not every gay person is the same? No, you can’t allow for difference, can you? That is the central problem here. Imprisonment? Beheading?!

    Again I say the word of the Lord is good, you say it is evil, I call it Truth you say lie

    I’ve never said ‘the word of the Lord’ is anything – neither evil nor lie. I wouldn’t, because that phrase doesn’t mean anything.

    I want the world to Know and love Jesus of Nazereth who got the victory over sodomy at Golgotha…

    And your opponents on this thread just don’t care.

  182. Andrew, when did I call you a nazi? I didn’t. You’re misrepresenting my words here, and I’ll thank you not to do that.

    What makes you different from people who believed in Aryan perfection? You’re certainly not showing much willingness to look at any viewpoints outside of your own narrow and blinkered world view. I’m not sure the bible teaches you to be that narrow minded, really. Have you not noticed that not all the world is the same? What do you think of transgender people, queer children, different races and nationalities, etc.?

    I didn’t tell Mel she wasn’t one of the elect, I said : ” I would like to think that, if a Jesus existed, you would not be one of his ‘elect’ as you put it.” You can read the rest of my previous post yourself, and I’d suggest doing so again as you clearly didn’t read it properly the first time.

    While you’re at it, perhaps you would like to think about some of the nonsense you’re spouting, and see if you can word it yourself without coming up with things quoted from elsewhere.

    Thanks James, the inability to define their reasoning is part of the problem really, isn’t it.

  183. bibletools right wing christian organisation wow whats going to happen the Sunday School going to kill you all or something???

    The point of the thread, which you seem to forget yet always live up to is about hate and intolerance. See how it’s a suitable example now?

    I saw earlier you referred to Martin Luther King. Let me remind you what he preached:

    I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

    I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”

    He preached equality, without precondition. Are you saying Dr King wasn’t a good Christian?

  184. No doubt Andrew’s absence this evening is because it’s the Sabbath and he’s probably in church praying for forgiveness for all the unpleasantness he’s dished out to people today (it’ll be a very long prayer).

    Meanwhile, most of the gay people on the thread will rest assured that they’ve been far nicer people: far more loving and life affirming, far less hateful and hurtful.

  185. Cosmodaddy I apologise for the following and feel free to delete it or edit or censor it at your will.

    Brad said he didn’t want to lower himself to name calling. Sadly I will.

    @Mel.
    You are a dumb bitch. READ comments before you reply. READ them then READ them again to make sure you understand it. Then and only then should you reply. That way you might be able to actually answer the questions put to you and even come up with something useful to say. You go to the same church as Iris Robinson? Yeah right! You are full of shit and a sinner. You will burn in the hell you believe in while I just die and stop existing. Enjoy!

    @Andrew Wilson
    You are a complete and utter waste of space. You say goodbye but get too scared to leave in case someone has a go at your ego. Heaven forbid anyone else should have an opinion. And no, that isn’t me telling you that YOU can’t have opinion, I’m trying to point out that not only should you accept that others have an opinion but you, just like Mel, should try reading comments you dumb fuck! I trained in medicine and I can tell you anal sex will not give you anal cancer. Which ever retarded website gave you that information should be shut down. Yes, there are risks to anal sex. Just as there are with vaginal sex. YES THERE ARE RISKS TO VAGINAL SEX. To the man and the woman. Hey did you know the AIDS came out because of straight sex? I suppose you’ll come up with some crap to try and prove me wrong. I couldn’t care less. You dirty straights creating a killer disease then you have the cheek to blame gays!

    @Both of you.
    The bible. A load of bollocks but a nice story. Eve created from a rib? Methusula living to eight hundred and something? Noah and the ark? Parting the red sea? Water into wine? The resurrection? Come on! Even you, as a human, can’t seriously believe all that crap! If there even was a heaven it’s going to be fucking empty because everyone (including you pair of dumb bastards) is a sinner. People wear mixed fabrics, fuck before marriage and work on the sabbath. So while you sit there spouting out the bollocks you claim to be truth but have no evidence off, jut remember that you won’t be converting anyone, you’ll just be giving us a good laugh, and you’ll still be going to hell.

    Now get a life an shut the fuck up!

  186. I said

    “Meanwhile, most of the gay people on the thread will rest assured that they’ve been far nicer people”

    OK maybe Rob cracked, but under provocation :o)

    Love you Rob/Brad x

  187. Dave I was replying to everyone in that you Cosmos etc cause there appears to be eight people now making comments….

  188. Rab if you are the doctor you claim to be then one piece of medical evidence supports Eve being created from a rib…the fact that men have 1 less rib than a woman…there it is….for th rest yes I do believe in the parting of the red sea as I highlighted earlier so read those posts and deal with the evidence they provide….before jumping into a searing frenzy…

    Mel is well saved I can assure you, as Martin Luther put it by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of works….as for Martin Luther King I have the same dream but he was not a promoter of homosexuality he was a born again christian leader, so too was wilberforce, and the list goes on, but people take the freedoms that these men created and want to use them for liscense to censor those who speak from the bible on the subject of sin..this is not a freedom issue it is a sin issue however if you choose to do it you have the freedom to do it…that should not enfringe upon the freedom of those who choose not to allow it in their home or hotel etc…the have the right to say do it somewhere else…

    Now that it has reach the level of idiotic swearing I’m out of here….

    bye

  189. @Ondrew Wilsan
    You’ll be back. Your ego won’t let you leave. You’ll be reading this and seething that you’ve said bye (for a third time) and would hate to come back as that would prove a gay right!

    Oh and one less rib proves nothing. Marilyn Monroe had an extra toe what does that prove? I didn’t say I was a doctor, I never claimed to be a doctor, (now you should be able to see why I said READ comments) no where does it say I was, am or ever have been a doctor. I said I trained in medicine. Doesn’t make me a doctor.

    You are an ignorant little man who seriously needs t take a step back and look at the real world.

    Oh and it’s ROB not RAB. And yet more proof you can’t/don’t read… how do you know all this crap about the bible when you show now capability of being able to comprehend what you read?

    Still reading? Oh yes indeedy! Gonna comment? I doubt it! You child.

  190. Rab if you are the doctor you claim to be then one piece of medical evidence supports Eve being created from a rib…the fact that men have 1 less rib than a woman…there it is

    Right. So where’s the medical or historical evidence then?

    as for Martin Luther King I have the same dream

    Liar. You don’t believe in equality at all. Every single solitary reply you’ve given has backed that ugly position up.

    but people take the freedoms that these men created and want to use them for liscense to censor those who speak from the bible on the subject of sin

    You like not listening don’t you? Still you haven’t been stopped from posting on this blog and I’ve replied many times about why Iris Robinson’s outbursts were unacceptable. But going down the martyr route is more fashionable isn’t it? You’re following a grand tradition. Pathetic.

    Now that it has reach the level of idiotic swearing I’m out of here….

    You’re a coward. You’ve fundamentally insulted people, said disgusting things to me, and when you’re outnumbered in the argument you choose to leave? I won’t miss you, but what cowardice. Really. If you’re learned anything from this thread let it be exactly why people dislike you, but I suspect you’ll have encountered it more than once in your life by now.

  191. Well said Cosmo!

  192. I’m amazed by all this shit! I have just spent about 45 mins reading all this and I’m stunned. literally stunned. The Bible! The fucking Bible! eh?!?! I didn’t think even hardcore christians believed that shit word for word. what a bunch of loony tunes! all these idiots saying things like in passage blah blah blah it says blah blah blah. AND? you’re talking to people that have braincells and weren’t mind raped by their parents to believe in this utter utter shite! who gives a rats arse what some bullshit book written years after the actual events says?

    I’m not gay, never fancied a bloke let alone fucked one but I’ve had plenty of hetro anal in my time. would I go to hell for that? theres not more evil shit going on in the world than me sticking one up wor lasses chocolate box? I still can’t belive these retards take all this shit seriously!

    donkeys can talk lord, people can fly!
    my superhero jesus lives up in the sky!
    four headed lions with 300 eyes
    are landing in jerusalem and every body dies!
    praise the lord!

    IDIOTIC!

    wouldn’t it be mental if there was a nuclear war and everything was destroyed apart from a copy of the lord of the rings trilogy and there was only a handfull of survivors who re-populated the earth and then found the books and started worshiping Bilbo, frodo and gandalf? praise frodo! our gandalf who art in middle earth, hallowed by thy hobbit….

    please don’t bother replying to me you crazy christians , I couldn’t give a fuck if you lot live or die or what your screwball crazy brainwashed hick backward bollocks opinions are, people wrapped up in religion are like retards to me, there’s something mentally wrong with you.

    and aren’t you lot out numbered by muslims and hindus and all that other crap? who’s to say your holy book isn’t wrong and theirs is right? what would you do then? when you realise your whole life has been based on a load of shit, a book designed to keep you ignorant and stupid. a book designed to stop you questioning life?

    hello brad and rob (its me, hebburndelboy !)you sinning heathens! how dare you live a happy life bothering no-one, hurting no-one? you should turn straight and accept jesus and spend your days hating people for nothing and hating imaginary sins like these fucking religious wack jobs…… not!

    lets just say this is big nice and easy words so these mental defects can understand it because its been said about 100 times and its just not getting through to them

    THERE IS NO PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS OR THAT THE BIBLE HAS ONE OUNCE OF TRUTH IN IT!

    PROVE IT OR GET BACK IN YOUR CAVES YOU BUNCH OF WACKY FUCKS!

  193. I would just like to inform Mel that as a straight woman, I personally love a bit of anal sex, does this make me vile and disgusting? If so, I’m thrilled.

    And just out of curiosity, have Mel’s prayers turned you from your sin yet?

    *yawns*

    I do love it when Christians condescendingly offer to pray for you, maybe Mel should put her prayers to better use, llike say praying for world peace, praying that man stop murdering, raping and sexually abusing “gods” children…

    As for Iris Robinson, she happens to be a fine example of how ignorance isn’t always bliss!!!

  194. Andrew Wilson – you are ignorant of the issues which you claim to know so much about. Where, medically, is there any evidence that Eve was made from a rib of Adam? Having one less rib proves nothing, there are other parts of the body that are different for men and women, as you ought to know.

    I disagree on the sin issue, but will leave that aside for the purposes of making a point.

    People providing goods and services should, under law, be able to provide those services and goods equally to all people be they black, white, gay, straight, transgendered, sikh, jews, muslims… etc. Would you condone discrimination on the side of colour or nationality? As you haven’t answered this when it’s been put to you before, I can only make the assumption that as you believe people have the freedom to withold servces to those whose sexuality they disapprove of, that you would believe in being able to withold services to all.

    It is the same issue, whether you think it is or not.

  195. @ Andrew:

    Martin Luther King…he was not a promoter of homosexuality he was a born again christian leader

    As usual you make absolutist statements without understanding one iota of what you’re talking about. It turns out to be a great case in point to show social change, the way in which King did embrace it, and how you and your fellow contributors in this thread do not. King was a man far ahead of his time, and living proof that religion can help drive change forward positively, rather than stymy change. And denying change is about the most unnatural thing of all…

  196. Whew, here we go! You might want to make a cup of tea, this is a biggie!

    @ Tim

    It’s a schooner!

    @ Andrew Wilson

    Will you please stop misrepresenting what people say to you, read their comments properly and at least TRY to see why we cannot accept your answer “because it’s in the bible” as a compelling argument.

    You continue to spout sections of it and use it to back up your statements when several of us have categorically stated that we do not recognise it as a legitimate historical record because there is nothing else to back it up. It’s like me writing a book about something and saying it MUST be true because it’s in my book – ludicrous.

    You keep ignoring things and then accusing others of doing the same, we are left with the possibility that it’s because you can’t formulate an answer that satisfies your understanding of the bible. I hope the things you’ve read and not commented on give you little doubts that make you question things a little bit – it’s healthy to think for yourself every now and then.

    Now, I’d like to go over some of your comments from the last couple of days:

    “As for Mr Dawkins book if you laugh at parts good, why read the words of a man about history when he wasn’t there and can only guess as to how things happened…I’d rather read Gods book cause He was there and made it happen much more accurate…”

    I laugh at parts of Mr Dawkins’ book because it’s funny in places. As I said, it’s not a bad thing – it’s good to laugh sometimes. “Why read the words of a man about history…”? The book isn’t about history; from the way you talked about it I thought you’d read it, but obviously not. Perhaps you SHOULD read it before you pass comment, I have read the bible, after all. Of all the words that could be used to describe the bible, “accurate” is not high on the list as far as I am concerned.

    “Whats that all about it proves you cook these things in your own head to suit the moment and try to defend your own undefensable position its called clutching at straws….”

    “I have been in many debates in my lifetime and never have met such a load of idiots!!! You guys haven’t got the first clue about what you are saying or talking about…”

    As far as I am aware, nobody here is clutching at straws, we have formulated opinions based on what we have seen, read and discussed. We have not been told “this is true” and accepted it. That’s quite the opposite of “clutching at straws”. It’s not a desperate last hope, it’s a reasoned and rational standpoint. Our position is not “undefensible”, you haven’t countered any of our arguments, you’ve just said “you’re wrong, I’m write, ha ha”. You say you’ve been in many debates, I think the debates you’ve been in were in Sunday school; you have yet to sufficiently argue a single point sufficiently well to have convinced me that you even have an opinion on anything that didn’t come from someone else.

    “The rest isn’t worth commenting on as I’ve proved you wrong and still you keep going even if I did it again it wouldn’t matter”

    You have proved nothing except your ignorance.

    “The bible is vague about homosexuality???
    Leviticus 18:22″Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
    What is vague about that, this is what Iris quoted!!!!!!”

    One line in the whole book. I’d call that vague. And amongst many other lines which condemn other things that I and others have already listed that you mostly ignored when I asked until you had chance to go and google up some answers in response to someone else. You latch onto this single line and quote it as definitive proof that our behaviour is wrong, twelve words on which to hang an entire group of people, dismiss their feelings and tell them their affection, their love, is not worth the same as yours?

    There is actually another line, come to think of it – and I’m quoting the bible here as a reference to back up a point, not to PROVE a point, something you need to learn how to do:

    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
    Leviticus 20:13

    If you believe the bible literally and totally agree, then surely you think that I, as a gay man, should be put to death? If that’s true, much as I think it’s ridiculous, then at least you have the strength of your convictions. But you’ve said many times you don’t wish me and other gay men harm, you hate the sin not the sinner – so are you just a massive hypocrite or what?

    What about all the other things in that section of the bible? Why is Lev 18:22 singled out? Oh, here are your responses to some of the other ludicrous taboos:

    “Eating shellfish is easy too it is a guideline other wise known as a food law they carry parasites and diseases that carry to man…”

    Why then does the bible not say “don’t eat shellfish because they carry parasites and diseases”? Why have they been consumed all over the world for thousands upon thousands of years? In Galway, we have an Oyster festival every year – last I checked Ireland was a primarily Catholic country, so how is it OK now to eat Oysters but not to be gay?

    You haven’t actually proved anything, you’ve just said “it’s a guideline” – who told you that? Not the bible, certainly.

    “…like pork being a protein deficient in a major amino acid that we need call niceen this can be linked to cancers there is a worm in it that even modern medicine can’t kill….fact again…”

    Oh, come off it. If you were going to live exclusively on pork, that might possibly become an issue in a few years time – but who does? Ever hear of a balance diet? And as for “can be linked to cancers”, so can walking outside – ever heard of skin cancer, caused by exposure to the sun? Modern medicine can’t kill this “worm”? I bet they bloody well can. Getting it out of someone safely might be a different story, but I bet this worm isn’t immortal. Is that a fact like animals not having anal sex was a fact? If it’s a fact, back it up – what’s this worm called?

    “cross breeding of livestock deminises the charactaristics of the breed a common mistake in modern livestock and dairy farming today we are short of fresh blood lines to get the performance we need so dairy cows are culled on their 4th lactation proving that we can barely grow enough replacements big problem in USA where they import 30% of their dairy heifers from Canada Fact check it with Neil Armstrong dairy practioner for OMAF.”

    Cross breeding of livestock – can’t argue with you about that one, but who actually asked about that? I certainly didn’t. It’s the hypocritical stuff I’m interested in.

    “Saturday was the sabbath of the old testament today that fits for Sunday ‘Remember the sabbath day to keep it Holy’ “

    Again, that statement proves nothing but that you read it somewhere in the bible. Repeating the statement itself is not evidence to support it – just because you say something several times does not make it any truer. Again, this wasn’t one of my queries, but I think the original point that was raised about this was about it being a sin to pick up sticks on the sabbath – work. Picking up sticks, gathering firewood, an essential household duty I would have thought. You can’t sit around on a Sunday doing nothing – if you’re a farmer, your animals need tending to. If you have a family, you have to prepare their food and look after small children. How can you reconcile this line from the bible with your life on a Sunday?

    “Blend two texitles and you have two different properties one with wear the other out, again a guideline law the would be subject to very different treatments to colour them and to stitch them.”

    You answered this one (and only this one) for me the other day…hang on a second, the other day this was because of “mould”? So which reason is it?

    They are both laughable, to be honest. Wool and cotton are both used extensively and have been for thousands of years, their properties are well known – I would have though people could decide for themselves if it was a good idea to mix them or not. What exactly does it have to do with living a good life and going to heaven? Why should you be punished for what you wear? And again, where does it say it’s a guideline? It says you shouldn’t do it, not why. You can’t take some things literally and then say others are just guidelines because they don’t fit your world view.

    “Cosmos when did Iris promote hatred??
    She simply said it was an abomination like the bible states and that the participators are need of help which is true, she never said, kill them or hurt them…I am puzzled why you take her statements as a threat?????”

    The promotion of hatred and intolerance – finally we get to the point of this blog post. Iris Robinson is perfectly entitled to her opinion, whatever it may be. But as a person in the public domain to say that one group of people is not as worthy of respect as another group is totally inappropriate – if she had said it of any other group, I’m sure you’d be disgusted, as we are. What’s so different?

    “You say the bible by its very nature can not be proved…why then is it in your governmental constitution, why did Queen Victoria at the height of the British Empire reach it to an indian boy and say her is the secret to Britains greatness, after this Britain and today America have disregarded this book and are paying the consequences Al quida are defeating them both and they are experiencing the fires of judgement as a result the heathen is in the land…”

    The bible cannot be proved. Tradition doesn’t make things true any more than repetition.

    “History prooves it…..if the bible isn’t true there would be no Jewish nation in Isreal today I can prove the bible you close ur eyes and ignore the facts, even the inca people in their legends have the story of Noahs flood as do the aboriginies in Australia both unreached by the gospel until recently…..”

    There bloody well WOULD be a nation in Israel today, they just might not be called Jewish and there stands a good chance that there would be a few million more of them too.

    The Incan and Aboriginal legends about the flood in no way “prove” the story of Noah – they directly contradict it. Particularly the Incan one. Yes, it tells of a flood that came to wipe out the “unworthy”, but it wasn’t Noah who was saved, and it wasn’t on a boat. So who is telling the truth? Neither! They’re stories, moral fables, “live your life right or look what might happen!”.

    “You say how can you refute a false positive…ever think about how idiotic that statement is??? if it is a flase positive you can proove it to be a negative!!! duh!”

    You obviously have no idea what Cosmo was talking about, and you are the one who ends up looking idiotic. It’s a perfectly reasonable statement. Let me make it simple. You are saying that God is there, but we can’t see him, hear him, detect him, we just have to believe in him. How are we supposed to prove he’s not there? You say he is, we say he isn’t. Our evidence does not “prove” he isn’t there to you, but the lack of proof does not prove that he IS there either.

    There’s a famous story about this which explains it better, I searched and this is the first link I found – http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm

    “like Hitler once said…..’tell a lie…tell it big enough and long enough and people will believe it….trouble is you end up believeing it yourself….”

    It’s our viewpoint that the bible is this big lie you refer to.

    “Moses is easy Cosmos he built Ramah the treasure city in Egypt, history records this fact alongside the bible, in the red sea they have taken out chariots known to be that of pharoh and his top men they were covered in pure gold again these are on display and history records it, the talmod the Jewish religion all prove Moses need I say more???”

    Yes you need to say more. Moses may have existed. Moses may not have existed. Where do you get your information about Ramah? This is from Wikipedia (not exactly the most reliable of sources, but at least it gives references – more than can be said for you).

    “Known extra-Biblical references to Moses date from many centuries after his supposed lifetime, and contain significant departures from the Biblical account. In addition to the Judeo-Roman or Judeo-Hellenic historians Artapanus, Eupolemus, Josephus, and Philo, a few gentile historians including Polyhistor, Manetho, Apion, Chaeremon of Alexandria, Tacitus and Porphyry make reference to him. The extent to which any of these accounts rely on earlier sources is unknown. Moses also appears in other religious texts such as the Midrash, Mishnah and Qur’an.

    No other surviving written records from Egypt, Assyria, etc., indisputably referring to the stories of the Bible or its main characters before ca. 850s BC have been found,[71][72] and there is no known physical evidence (such as pottery shards or stone tablets) to corroborate Moses’ existence.[73][74]”

    No records from Egypt, eh? So what about this “treasure city”?

    As for the chariots in the red sea, if they were even found there, who is to say they were not on a boat that sank?

    “Adam and Eve simple there was a garden called Eden in modern day Iraq, their first son was a murderer, and sin is in everyone of us again proof…..”

    I could call my garden Eden, doesn’t mean a thing biblically. How exactly does you saying their first son was a murderer prove anything?

    “Virgin birth easy, Mary had not yet known Joseph or any man in physical sense, the bible says ‘God will provide Himself a Lamb’ Jesus said to the Pharasiees before Abraham was I am in another words Jesus preexisted Abraham in heaven showing himself to be God…..the garden tomb, the hill of Golgotha ‘the place of the skull’
    all in existence today roman history records the crucifixtion….the empty tomb with the stone rolled away the folded grave clothes and millions of people walking the earth today in light of this fact because Jesus is alive inside them today like me :)”

    More stories from the bible. More repetition. No proof.

    And now I come to the section you blatantly copied and pasted from another source. It’s obvious you did it, it has numbered references, better grammar and spelling (American spelling at that) and a totally different style of writing to yours. I would congratulate you for actually doing some research if you had admitted it.

    The information itself is biased, outdated (some of the dates quoted are 1988 and 1989!) and ignores any information that doesn’t support it’s case.

    “…anal intercourse leads to leakage of fecal material that can easily become chronic.”

    Oh really? I’m sure, if you really abused your anus, regular fisting three times a week, no lube, you would do some damage. But how many people do you think actually indulge in that kind of behaviour? Anal penetration with a penis is not going to cause the kind of damage this guy is talking about. “Leakage of fecal matter” – a healthy stool would not “leak”, you’d have to have very loose stools for this to occur, and if you have that problem, an unpenetrated arsehole has just as much trouble keeping it in.

    There is much more that I won’t pick apart, largely because I’m not qualified. But one point that I will argue is that of infection – by HIV or anything else. I have said in a previous comment, you don’t get HIV or any other infection because you have anal sex, you get it because you have ANY SORT OF SEX with an infected person. It’s about who you do it with not how you do it. It may well be easier to get HIV through anal sex, but if your partner doesn’t have it, you can’t get it. Simple as that.

    “Here is medical fact……..why should I pay my taxes to accomodate the above??”

    Firstly, how is that a medical fact? Secondly, you don’t pay your taxes to accommodate the above, becuase it’s mostly bollocks. You may as well say you don’t pay your taxes to fund dental work for kids who have eaten too many sweets, a far greater problem.

    “Cosmos you can’t reply lets face it…to set a few other things straight my education must be ok they put me on television over here for being an innovator…I am well known in my country and lack of education is not something held against me….”

    You don’t have to be clever to be on telly – I’m sure any producer will tell you a dunce is a much more entertaining prospect. But it has to be said you don’t come across very well when you continue to get peoples’ names wrong even when you’ve been corrected.

    “If I am accused of being uneducated and fall into the same category as Queen Victoria, Abraham Lincoln, Cromwell and others by believing that the bible is the sovereign word of God I am in good company, these me served their countries in the time of their finest hours, those hours are gone today because sin has so decayed our societies….”

    You are accused of being uneducated because of your poor spelling, grammar, comprehension and debating skills – nothing to do with the bible, and what that has to do with the people you mention I have no idea.

    “…you then said but homosexuality is what defines you…I know what you are saying, alcohol and cigars was what use to define me….why???”

    I think he actually said it was an intrisic part of what he is – he is gay. It cannot be changed. That is not that same thing as “defining him”. Alcohol and cigars are things you liked. Being gay is what he is. You are not a cigar. Completely different things.

    “Cosmos you most certainly are on drugs…James picked nothing apart and neither could you, you couldn’t even reply to my answers!!!!”

    Almost every statement you have made has been picked apart by somebody on this blog. Your responses are mostly quotes from the bible and unintelligible strings of unrelated sentences. And monkey sex noises. Well done you.

    “I have no fascination with gay sex whatsoever, clearly demonstrated in the above why would I want an increased risk of having constant diahorea and go to a lost eternity??”

    Well, why are you here talking about it then? This blog wasn’t even about gay sex, but that’s what you, Mel and others have reduced it to. And what does constant diahorea have to do with anything? Is that what you think happens? The sperm stays up your behind and dilutes the poo? Makes it runny? Very, very wrong.

    “Again straw clutching at straws to avoid the real points, you got this here and you got that there na nah na nah na are you 4yrs old????? Deal with the points duh!!!”

    Can I remind you that you were the one who wrote monkey sex noises. And you are the one who keeps clutching at one straw in particular – the bible.

    “I certainly didn’t cut and paste from bibletools.org…”

    “James again I would say grow up a little I didn’t copy it from bible tools I wrote my own account stating more or less the same then to back it up went to another site got it so copied that, another site must have used bible tools or it is out a publication on this matter that they both took it, it still answered the question about mixed fibres didn’t it!!!”

    Maybe you didn’t copy and paste from bibletools.org, but from somewhere. If you still say you didn’t, I’ll call you a liar again. And how exactly did it answer the question about mixed fibres?

    “Who is being left behind??? You are my friend in the fact that who won’t even own up to medical facts that a weakened spincter results is crapping constantly 🙂 You haven’t yet addressed this….Abraham Lincoln was he then a nazi??? is that what you are saying??? Mr Wilberforce who stopped the slave trade using the bible is he a nazi??? Billy Graham a nazi that is so ridiculous…”

    You take EVERYTHING literally, don’t you, not just the bible. The point being made was that your thinking is like that of the Nazis.

    “Again you have to attack me because you can’t handle the points I’ve made through the bible, through medicine and through history….”

    I think it’s the other way round.

    “Ok cosmos a cancerous beleif I would turn that around and say that is what you have when medical evidence says that Gay men are 10 times more likely to develop Anal Cancer……”

    Show us the medical evidence then.

    “For all the 4 year olds forget the source and deal with the material…”

    That is the stupidest thing you have said on here.

    “You all focus on where did the information come from rather than the answers it provides…”

    Which is the rational thing to do. Answers are important, but if they are based on nothing of substance then they are worthless.

    “…written only in Latin so no one could read and understand…”

    I touched on this briefly the other day. Who is to say that the person who translated the bible into Latin didn’t adjust it to fit with their own feelings and insert a few choice words to make it suit their interpretation? And again, from the Latin into English? There are so many versions of the bible in English, so many interpretations – which is the true one? I read of a theory that Judas’ role as a traitor may be based on a mistranslation. Does that make it true? No, it might not be. But it SHOULD make you think.

    “…you want to sodomise the world…”

    Honestly, no. Half of the people in the world are women for a start. And of the remainder – what is it with straight men that makes them think gay men automatically fancy them? You really are nothing special, believe me!

    “One last question James if you knew about bibletools.org and had read the answer to the question why did you ask such a stupid question in the 1st place???”

    Probably because he was after YOUR opinion, not that of a website full of crap.

    “If you are an athiest I would stick to that instead of trying to condemn Christians when you clearly haven’t read much of the bible.”

    I’m not condemning anyone, it’s quite the reverse – you’re the one telling me I’m going to hell.

    “let God be true and every man a liar…”

    Why? I’m telling the truth as I see it. You, on the other hand, have lied twice at least. Don’t tar us with your guilty little brush.

    “Now that it has reach the level of idiotic swearing I’m out of here….”

    Again, remember the monkey sex noises?

    “one piece of medical evidence supports Eve being created from a rib…the fact that men have 1 less rib than a woman…”

    And women have a vagina and ovaries and breasts and two X chromosomes and no bollocks and the list goes on and on. If we were all the same, we’d all be homosexual!

    I think my last point from my last comment to Mel bears repeating – I am in no way saying that you should live your life any other way, and if the bible and it’s teaching makes you happy, then I wish you happiness. I chose to believe other than you, but it does not make me a bad person and I deserve the same respect as anyone else from people like Iris Robinson – which is the whole point of this blog post.

  197. @Andrew Wilson & Mel
    Still reading? Oh I’m sure you are.

  198. Ha! it’s not a schooner it’s a sailboat!

    honestly I not worried about talking with either of them, their grasp on history and penchant for taking every anecdote they have ever heard literally makes it pointless. However I do have a delightful and complete portfolio of bridges that they should peruse, truly some great deals here!

    and Guys it’s not mocking you or trying to belittle you i really just can’t seem to express my points in a way you understand. but calling your constituents “abominations” is in poor taste.

  199. I have read and reread the comments on this post, what a shame they have detracted from the content and the point of the post itself.

    I have picked up on things like ‘God died for us’ erm was that not the ‘Son’ of God not actually God himself?

    You all go on about the scriptures and Christianity and the word of God, well actually Christianity is a religion based on the life and works of CHRIST, the Son, not on GOD the Father. And from what I remember did he not preach tolerance and love and forgiveness?

    What makes you think that the ones to be gathered up that offend are homosexuals? Does it actually say this? Erm no, it doesnt, this is the play that people place on the words of the bible in order to excuse their biases and intolerances.

    As for the student of Psychology (You note that I have spelt this correctly?) I do hope you have spellcheck on when writing your assignments, obviously you have not been studying this subject very long or you would know that the key factor of this subject is tolerance and understanding, there is no room for biases and prejudices you are supposed to have an open mind, all I can say is Lord help whoever you decide to counsel!!

    I feel sorry for people who are intolerant of others, with such narrow minded views you must live such rigid and set lives, even your friendships are scrutinised in case they are found wanting. Maybe you should try living a little and allowing others to do the same.

  200. Pingback: David Davis: The Difficulties « Cosmodaddy

  201. “That would presume that you can make someone gay. I thought only nutcases like Iris Robinson believed that”

    Peter Tatchell makes a very good point on this today when he asks why do gays need to try and prove we were born gay anyway? he said, and I quote…

    ” it suggests a terrible lack of self-confidence and a rather sad, desperate need to justify queer desire. It’s almost as if those pushing these theories believe we don’t deserve human rights unless we can prove that we are born gay and that our homosexuality is beyond our control: ‘We can’t help being fags and dykes, so please don’t treat us badly.’ This seems to be the pleading, defensive sub-text of much of the pro-gay gene thesis.

    Surely we merit human rights because we are human beings? The cause of our homosexuality is irrelevant to our quest for justice. We are entitled to dignity and respect, regardless of whether we are born queer or made queer, and irrespective of whether our homosexuality is something beyond our control or something freely chosen.”

  202. Andrew Wilson

    Now you have given me the proof for my final statement….

    Homosexuality is a satanic abomination and a false cult!!!

    See how furious you all now are??? The cursing and the swearing that declares the truth that you HATE THE WORD OF GOD & CHRISTIANS…Yes you are part of a Satanic cult….

    Romans 1:25-27
    25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator– who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

    You have exchaged the truth for a lie!!!

    Jesus Gods Son yes….but you deny his deity cause the Father dwelt in Him…Jesus said ‘He who hath seen me hath seen the Father’, ‘To with that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself’ furthermore ‘God will provide Himself a Lamb’ not someone else 🙂 The word became flesh and dwelt among us…. 🙂

    Genesis 19:1-29 says God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality. It stinks in the nostrils of God. Genesis 13:13 identify the men of Sodom as exceedingly wicked sinners. Genesis 18:20 says that the sin of Sodom is “very grievous.” Genesis 18:23 adds emphasis to the portrayal of the inhabitants of Sodom as “wicked.” Genesis 18:24-33 shows that God could not find even 10 righteous souls in Sodom. The perverts who inhabited Sodom, even wanted to rape God’s Angels who had come to Sodom to rescue Lot.

    It is clear. The same sex marriage agenda is against God, and is SIN, and that my friend is the bottom-line because the Word of Our Most Holy God says so.

    Serial Killers are Homosexuals

    However, if you really want to know to what depths of degradation the homosexual lifestyle takes people, all you need to do is study the inner lives of the world’s most dangerous criminals—serial killers. In his book, Violence and Homosexuality, Dr. Paul Cameron noted that the top serial killers were all homosexual:
    “The nexus between homosexuality and violence is notorious. We have motorcycle gangs, black leather boys and rough trade addicted to chains, torture, slaves, and sadism. Hitler rose on the backs of “Storm Troopers” led from the top by a gang of homosexuals headed by Ernst Roehm.”

    According to the Associated Press, as reported in Christian News newspaper (July 23, 2001 p. 3), the seven worst serial killers in the U.S.A. were all homosexual deviates:

    o Donald Harvey – 37 murders
    o John Wayne Gacy – 33 murders
    o Patrick Kearney – 32 murders
    o Bruce Davis – 28 murders
    o Dean Corll, Elmer Wayne Henley, and David Owen Brooks – 27 murders

    The monstrous conduct of these homo killers is almost beyond belief. John Wayne Gacy, the sadistic torturer and raper of 33 boys, dressed up as a circus clown to attract victims. “A clown can get away with murder,” Gacy once boasted.

    Jeffrey Dahmer, who was a satanist and a cannibal, homosexually raped and killed 17 boys and young men after slipping “knockout” pills in their drinks. He attempted to keep some alive as sex zombies, but they, too, died from his fiendish brain operations.

    I don’t like cults murderers and perverts much, I only want to let them know that there is a God who gave Himself for them, He is the only way to heaven and His name is Jesus….

    I’ve told you what I came to tell you only to see your true colours shown in the language and hatred of the discussion, that is why I have wiped the dust off my feet…who says it doesn’t harm others…perversion does cause it is born of an evil spirit and one day instead of you controlling it, it will control you and there is no telling what will come of it….

    🙂 bye bye by the way you are not Gay, that word means happy, fancying the same sex has nothing to do with this word what a lie what a sham!!!

  203. Andrew Wilson

    Again lies who is a Nazi??? Not me…..more like you!!!!

    The Pink Swastika

    Hitler, Nazi founder, was similarly a sex pervert. As Chancellor, he carried on sexually with his 15-year-old niece, who killed herself rather than continue giving in to his bizarre and beastly sexual fetishes. As a young Bohemian streetwalker and “starving artist,” the man who later would rule most of Europe sold his body to gay men.

    Hitler is noted as a fanatical fan of Wagnerian operas. Less known is the fact that before he rose to become the Fuhrer, in the 1920s, Hitler sexually abused Richard Wagner’s grandson, Wieland Wagner (Time magazine, August 15, 1994, p. 56).

    Hitler, of course, was catapulted to power largely by the Brown Shirts (SA), a fascist youth organization led by and composed primarily of “butch” type homosexual militarists. The head of the thuggish Brown Shirts was Ernst Roehm, who was a notorious molester of young boys. Roehm was executed by Hitler after his sexual excesses became widely known.

    As Scott Lively writes in his revealing book, The Pink Swastika-Homosexuality and the Nazi Party, “Homosexuals are the perfect foot soldiers for the devil.”

    Interestingly, Hitler and his henchmen intensely disliked feminine gay men, even sent many to concentration camps. The Nazis preferred masculine, butch, soldier-types-like Field Marshall Reinhard Heydrich-willing to take orders. On the other hand, in Soviet Russia, the Communists and Bolsheviks favored gay Jews with female traits and affectations.

    Enough lies enough rubbish….

    bye

  204. Andrews said..

    “See how furious you all now are??? The cursing and the swearing that declares the truth that you HATE THE WORD OF GOD & CHRISTIANS”

    I’m not furious Andrew. Frustrated at how many unpleasant people like you I share the planet with, maybe. But I don’t need to be furious because at the end of the day, you’re the unpleasant one and I only ever do good for people.

  205. Andrew said..

    “Enough lies enough rubbish….bye”

    That sentence correlates to me that you’re off so they’ll be no more lies or rubbish.

    (oh and you’ve had more come backs than the Rolling Stones – I’ve no doubt we’ll hear from you again)

  206. Andrews said

    “Genesis 19:1-29 says God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality”

    That’s YOUR version. However well respected theologians don’t agree.

    I’ve read a whole book dedicated to that alone – where top biblical scholars from places like Yale University, the Union of Theological Seminary, the University of California – and a Roman Catholic Priest, and Prof of Christian Ethics, amongst other – all conclude that the sin of Sodom was in fact inhospitality.

  207. Andrew you are quite probably the most tedious man on this planet. Multiple cut & paste jobs now? To prove what exactly?

    However, if you really want to know to what depths of degradation the homosexual lifestyle takes people, all you need to do is study the inner lives of the world’s most dangerous criminals—serial killers.

    OK. Let me try. If you really want to know to what depths of degradation the heterosexual lifestyle takes people, all you need to do is study the inner lives of the world’s most dangerous criminals – genocidal despots. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Kim Jong Il, Saddam…see how easy this is?

    bye bye by the way you are not Gay, that word means happy, fancying the same sex has nothing to do with this word what a lie what a sham!!!

    There is NO WAY you’re married with a successful business. You write like a child. Similarly to a child as well, you can’t seem to engage in self-reflection and stop because this isn’t going anywhere. If your mother could only barge in right now and see what you’re writing! 😉

  208. Cosmo said..

    “If your mother could only barge in right now and see what you’re writing! ;)”

    Similarly, what would happen if his church saw what he writes. I think he’d be excommunicated.

  209. I’d wager that’s why Mel left. She probably bragged to Iris Robinson herself, who threw a thunderbolt at her.

  210. Oh you got me! how did you know? I have a closet full of dead people, no one guessed it but you!! Every gay person is a serial killer! we have this little hand shake you see, it kinda of looks like a your stabbing someone and giving them a hand job. Thank you for showing me the light, I’m going to clean up my act, yes sir! all thanks to you, that’s another gold star on your jesus crown you know!
    I really just wanted to stop going home for holidays and have my parents look at me with horror because i stared at too many underwear ads in the sunday papers! But no longer! Jesus is going to save me, I mean he didn’t last time I prayed when i was a teenager, I mean sometimes I got raging hardons at church and he did nothing about it, but I bet this time it’s going to work. totally, and I’m going to get a wife and we aren’t going to have sex but we’ll have fun praying a together and handing out sandwiches to homeless youths, I hope they aren’t hot, wait it won’t matter I’ll be straight with a wife!!

    You know you hadn’t convinced me in the first forty post but that number 41 was really right on the money, good thing you stayed around to convince us or we might have slipped thru.

  211. Andrew Wilson states that Serial killers are homosexuals, hmmmm, does this count too for the ones that rape and kill women?

    You have named five, oh my, I guess you have been surfing the net, though of course they are quite famous ones is that why you thought they would lend weight to your argument?

    I do not know where you get your information and statistics from, as a criminal psychologist I can assure you that there are more hetro-sexual serial killers than homosexual, I have yet to know of a homosexual that would rape and kill women.

    Maybe your arguments would hold more weight if your information was valid and consistent?

  212. 18:1 It happened, when he had made an end of speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
    18:2 Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father’s house.
    18:3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.
    18:4 Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him, and gave it to David, and his clothing, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his sash.

    See I think that’s nice but you would probably call it gay….

  213. The cursing and the swearing that declares the truth that you HATE THE WORD OF GOD & CHRISTIANS.

    I can’t hate something which isn’t real. And I don’t hate Christians, at least not for being Christians. I really get wound up by stupid people, I detest hateful people, and get saddened that people are prepared to put imaginary friends ahead of fellow human beings.

    Yes you are part of a Satanic cult.

    I knew someone once who’d fucked his boyfriend on a church altar. It sure sounded like fun – it’s always fun to leave an ambition in reserve…

  214. I lost my virginity at church!

  215. Really, Andrew, you’re doing nothing to show your own feelings on the matter other than reciting what other people have told you to believe. Were you, by chance, a gay man who was saved or has seen the light?!

    Taking my tongue out of my cheek a little, you are still making no points that we couldn’t all see by googling “church+teh evil gays+christ” or something to similar effect.

    As for this:
    “bye bye by the way you are not Gay, that word means happy, fancying the same sex has nothing to do with this word what a lie what a sham!!!”

    Well, my young child can make a better argument than you do. By saying that you’ve proven to me that you have no argument at all and are so completely stuck as to throw things out.

    You can call it whatever you like – gay, queer, bent, faggots, poofters, shirtlifters, etc. We’ll know what you mean.

  216. @Andrew Wilson

    I thought you were going?

    But… you came back!

    You proved a gay man right!

    This means you’re going to hell.

    Dun dun duuurrrrnnn!

  217. @ Andrew Wilson

    Now you have given me the proof for my final statement…

    You’re a nutter.

    Oh, there’s that word again – proof. I think you need to look it up.

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  220. I agree with Jason’s comments and am sorry to see that fundamentalist Christians are still unable to take anyone else’s views into account. Many Christians already realise that we cannot base our morals on the LITERAL interpretation of scripture – if we did, we would still be burning people at the stake for breaching Old Testament food laws! For me, the Christian message comes from Jesus first and foremost – and that is “Love God, and love your neighbour as yourself” – everything else stems from this. It just shows me how far we have come from the idea of individual scriptural determination which supposedly underlay the reformation.

    I would like to see how members the DUP would react if a Muslim MP wanted to institute Sharia law in Northern Ireland. No doubt they would be more keen on a separation of religion and politics then! Everyone has the right to make their own choices and to live freely no matter of sexual orientation, gender, religious or political belief.

    It is arrogant of Iris Robinson to assume that her comments represent the views of the Christian community in Northern Ireland or, as her colleague Jeffrey Donaldson put it, ‘this is what the Northern Irish people want.’ She does not represent my views nor those of many Christians that I know. Her personal view on homosexuality should not be relevant to her politics and if she cannot control her tongue, she should go. As for her party, they should do the right thing and condemn her comments. VOTE THEM OUT!!!

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