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	<title>Comments on: Doctor Who 4:13 (Spoilers-R-Us)</title>
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	<description>Nuanced, poignant insights. With visual panache. Sometimes with added Cosmo.</description>
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		<title>By: GJ</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-755</link>
		<dc:creator>GJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 01:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-755</guid>
		<description>Amazing episode, but was I the only disappointed Grandpa Noble didn&#039;t get to go on the TARDIS and see the universe? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing episode, but was I the only disappointed Grandpa Noble didn&#8217;t get to go on the TARDIS and see the universe? <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Owen Blacker</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-751</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen Blacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-751</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed it, though it does bother me how RTD just desperately seems to need a script editor to reign him in on occasion.

Rose&#039;s ending seemed a little over-trite — it didn&#039;t move me at all, which surprised me. At least it dealth with the issue of there being two of Ten.

Donna&#039;s ending, however, really was horribly, painfully, upsettingly tragic. Immensely well-written (and generally I don&#039;t rate RTD, &lt;em&gt;Turn Left&lt;/em&gt; notwithstanding). The interaction between Davros and Ten (I) before the mass transmatting of companions was just fantastic, as you&#039;ve commented.

The whole storyline did just feel like Rose was introduced solely for the sake of it, though. The Torchwood team (and Martha&#039;s mam) all seemed a bit pointless, though. Was Jack really only introduced so his machismo could be more threatening than Sarah Jane would&#039;ve been?

And Mickey and Jackie were very good fun (I never complain at seeing Noel Clarke being butch), but they didn&#039;t really achieve very much.

Very good fun, but RTD always feels like he&#039;s writing for kids and occasionally remembers we adults watch it too…

…and I do hope that&#039;s not the end of Donna&#039;s storyline…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed it, though it does bother me how RTD just desperately seems to need a script editor to reign him in on occasion.</p>
<p>Rose&#8217;s ending seemed a little over-trite — it didn&#8217;t move me at all, which surprised me. At least it dealth with the issue of there being two of Ten.</p>
<p>Donna&#8217;s ending, however, really was horribly, painfully, upsettingly tragic. Immensely well-written (and generally I don&#8217;t rate RTD, <em>Turn Left</em> notwithstanding). The interaction between Davros and Ten (I) before the mass transmatting of companions was just fantastic, as you&#8217;ve commented.</p>
<p>The whole storyline did just feel like Rose was introduced solely for the sake of it, though. The Torchwood team (and Martha&#8217;s mam) all seemed a bit pointless, though. Was Jack really only introduced so his machismo could be more threatening than Sarah Jane would&#8217;ve been?</p>
<p>And Mickey and Jackie were very good fun (I never complain at seeing Noel Clarke being butch), but they didn&#8217;t really achieve very much.</p>
<p>Very good fun, but RTD always feels like he&#8217;s writing for kids and occasionally remembers we adults watch it too…</p>
<p>…and I do hope that&#8217;s not the end of Donna&#8217;s storyline…</p>
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		<title>By: cosmodaddy</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmodaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-746</guid>
		<description>We have to suspect that Davros prevented her transmissions. He knew who she was and what she was doing from Caan&#039;s prophecy, and presumably manipulated her timeline too. Except how does that then differentiate her from Donna? Far too many mindgames inserted to mess with die hards and generate buzz, too little consistency - a fun yet always ultimately irritating legacy of the RTD era.

There was a stage where I felt this was cracking good TV. The pace was insane, the script had been pared down from the waffle of &#039;The Stolen Earth&#039; and even the humour was hitting the mark (&#039;Watch it, Earth girl&#039; cracked me up). Maybe from looking at your analysis more of the plot tied up than I&#039;d originally felt, but much of that had to be inferred or was implicit

At least we now know who Rose&#039;s unnamed new, non-Mikey boyfriend in the parallel world was...;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to suspect that Davros prevented her transmissions. He knew who she was and what she was doing from Caan&#8217;s prophecy, and presumably manipulated her timeline too. Except how does that then differentiate her from Donna? Far too many mindgames inserted to mess with die hards and generate buzz, too little consistency &#8211; a fun yet always ultimately irritating legacy of the RTD era.</p>
<p>There was a stage where I felt this was cracking good TV. The pace was insane, the script had been pared down from the waffle of &#8216;The Stolen Earth&#8217; and even the humour was hitting the mark (&#8216;Watch it, Earth girl&#8217; cracked me up). Maybe from looking at your analysis more of the plot tied up than I&#8217;d originally felt, but much of that had to be inferred or was implicit</p>
<p>At least we now know who Rose&#8217;s unnamed new, non-Mikey boyfriend in the parallel world was&#8230;;)</p>
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		<title>By: Scoobs</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>Scoobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-745</guid>
		<description>I think for me the best scene of the lot was the one in the Crucible where Martha has the Osterhagen Key and Sarah Jane / Jack have the Warp Star and both blackmailing Davros, and Davros turns to the Doctor and makes the point that he turns ordinary people into weapons of mass destruction - yes, with the intention of doing good, but look where his intentions lead his &quot;children of time&quot; - threatening mass murder.  Again drawing parallels with Davros and the Daleks - Davros breeds his children to be destroyers, and unwittingly the Doctor does exactly the same thing with his children of time - going right back to the horrifying comparison made back in Season 1 with Eccleston - &quot;you would make a good Dalek&quot;.  This time Davros takes the point and SMACKS him between the eyes with it as we see all those who die or kill in his name, for his motives.  Absolutely brilliant.  And we see the real tragedy of the Doctor - that he does what he does for good, but his hands are drowning in blood.

Things that still need explaining (and may never be)

Rose - she didn&#039;t contact the Doctor in Ep1 when she could have - so we assume she knew &quot;how it was meant to be&quot; and that she had to wait, manipulate events to get to where it needed to be in Ep12, and then meet him only then.  

Which doesn&#039;t explain why she tried to contact the Tardis in Sontaran Strategen/Poison Sky, and the Doctor on the viewscreen on planet Midnight.  Because if she knew she had to wait, why was she trying to contact him then?  And if she didn&#039;t have to wait, why didn&#039;t she lock onto the Tardis in Ep1?  Mutually contradictory.

But of course the further, and perhaps more important question - is - why COULDN&#039;T she get through on those occasions?  What - or Who - was blocking her?  And does this have any significance or was it just a cool RTD plot point to keep Rose in our minds throughout the long season (I suspect so but hope not)

Why was Donna attacked in Turn Left?  Was this some convoluted part of Caan&#039;s plan or was someone or something working to stop his plan from being fulfilled for their own reasons?

Who did take the Master&#039;s ring at the end of Season 3?  Is it tied in with the ring on Donna&#039;s finger that was very obviously shown to us with a fetching glint at the end of Journey&#039;s End?  Or a red herring?

The Doctor&#039;s Daughter has yet to be picked up again and apparently she&#039;s out there - doing what?  Will she be back in some guise?

Davros - of course he&#039;s not dead - he&#039;s like Freddie Kruger - he never dies.  What will he try next as his Dalek empire is - yet again - wiped out?

Who will be the Doctor&#039;s next companion as we see him stand in the Tardis control room - hours ago brimful of friends - all alone once more?

Bah.  I hate it when the season ends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think for me the best scene of the lot was the one in the Crucible where Martha has the Osterhagen Key and Sarah Jane / Jack have the Warp Star and both blackmailing Davros, and Davros turns to the Doctor and makes the point that he turns ordinary people into weapons of mass destruction &#8211; yes, with the intention of doing good, but look where his intentions lead his &#8220;children of time&#8221; &#8211; threatening mass murder.  Again drawing parallels with Davros and the Daleks &#8211; Davros breeds his children to be destroyers, and unwittingly the Doctor does exactly the same thing with his children of time &#8211; going right back to the horrifying comparison made back in Season 1 with Eccleston &#8211; &#8220;you would make a good Dalek&#8221;.  This time Davros takes the point and SMACKS him between the eyes with it as we see all those who die or kill in his name, for his motives.  Absolutely brilliant.  And we see the real tragedy of the Doctor &#8211; that he does what he does for good, but his hands are drowning in blood.</p>
<p>Things that still need explaining (and may never be)</p>
<p>Rose &#8211; she didn&#8217;t contact the Doctor in Ep1 when she could have &#8211; so we assume she knew &#8220;how it was meant to be&#8221; and that she had to wait, manipulate events to get to where it needed to be in Ep12, and then meet him only then.  </p>
<p>Which doesn&#8217;t explain why she tried to contact the Tardis in Sontaran Strategen/Poison Sky, and the Doctor on the viewscreen on planet Midnight.  Because if she knew she had to wait, why was she trying to contact him then?  And if she didn&#8217;t have to wait, why didn&#8217;t she lock onto the Tardis in Ep1?  Mutually contradictory.</p>
<p>But of course the further, and perhaps more important question &#8211; is &#8211; why COULDN&#8217;T she get through on those occasions?  What &#8211; or Who &#8211; was blocking her?  And does this have any significance or was it just a cool RTD plot point to keep Rose in our minds throughout the long season (I suspect so but hope not)</p>
<p>Why was Donna attacked in Turn Left?  Was this some convoluted part of Caan&#8217;s plan or was someone or something working to stop his plan from being fulfilled for their own reasons?</p>
<p>Who did take the Master&#8217;s ring at the end of Season 3?  Is it tied in with the ring on Donna&#8217;s finger that was very obviously shown to us with a fetching glint at the end of Journey&#8217;s End?  Or a red herring?</p>
<p>The Doctor&#8217;s Daughter has yet to be picked up again and apparently she&#8217;s out there &#8211; doing what?  Will she be back in some guise?</p>
<p>Davros &#8211; of course he&#8217;s not dead &#8211; he&#8217;s like Freddie Kruger &#8211; he never dies.  What will he try next as his Dalek empire is &#8211; yet again &#8211; wiped out?</p>
<p>Who will be the Doctor&#8217;s next companion as we see him stand in the Tardis control room &#8211; hours ago brimful of friends &#8211; all alone once more?</p>
<p>Bah.  I hate it when the season ends.</p>
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		<title>By: cosmodaddy</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-744</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmodaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-744</guid>
		<description>That is one hell of a good review, particularly the points about Dalek Caan. For me that proves much of your earlier concern that there was too much to tie up effectively. You&#039;re right - Caan&#039;s outright involvement &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; implicit in manipulating Donna&#039;s entire life. And I do hope that the Master&#039;s involvement with her is yet to come. Word has it that the actual scenes with John Simm have already been shot, but were excised when RTD realised that including him as well would have been too much for an already overloaded episode. We&#039;ll have to see if the rumour of this plotline being bumped into one of 2009&#039;s specials (or even at Christmas) is true. 

And can we sort out David Tennant for series 5 now please? They&#039;re shooting in April, so the new writers will have to know whether they&#039;re writing Ten, Eleven or Ten and Eleven before &lt;i&gt;too&lt;/i&gt; long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is one hell of a good review, particularly the points about Dalek Caan. For me that proves much of your earlier concern that there was too much to tie up effectively. You&#8217;re right &#8211; Caan&#8217;s outright involvement <i>is</i> implicit in manipulating Donna&#8217;s entire life. And I do hope that the Master&#8217;s involvement with her is yet to come. Word has it that the actual scenes with John Simm have already been shot, but were excised when RTD realised that including him as well would have been too much for an already overloaded episode. We&#8217;ll have to see if the rumour of this plotline being bumped into one of 2009&#8217;s specials (or even at Christmas) is true. </p>
<p>And can we sort out David Tennant for series 5 now please? They&#8217;re shooting in April, so the new writers will have to know whether they&#8217;re writing Ten, Eleven or Ten and Eleven before <i>too</i> long.</p>
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		<title>By: Scoobs</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-743</link>
		<dc:creator>Scoobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-743</guid>
		<description>I thought the implication and it was pretty much said, that Dalek Caan was manipulating the timelines to converge around Donna since birth.  

The attack on her in Turn Left - either we&#039;re meant to assume that was also Dalek Caan&#039;s orchestration with the intention of bringing everyone into play as he ended up doing (don&#039;t ask me why though, it really doesn&#039;t make sense), or there&#039;s another reason for that, which will become clearer in the future (after all, that attack on her had the intended outcome of undoing Dalek Caan&#039;s plan and ensuring she and the Doctor never met so would not fulfil prophecy).

Rose&#039;s extra knowledge - well we&#039;re supposed to think she could suddenly dimensional jump again because of the reality bomb because barriers were breaking down in universes where time was running ahead of ours, and hers runs ahead of ours so she also knows enough to manipulate Donna back onto the correct path in Turn Left.   Let&#039;s just say some of her knowledge and appearances are convenient.  Let&#039;s also say that it&#039;s...surprising...that she didn&#039;t just go into the parallel world in Ep1, lock onto the Tardis thanks to Control (as she did in Ep12), and meet the Doctor and explain it all then.  Of course, this would lead to the infamous &quot;short season&quot; syndrome.

Russell T Davies&#039;s writing and plot construction is often superficially clever, but when you dig a little deeper starts to look a but less clever and rather full of convenient coincidence and unexplained events.  It starts to look like some things happen purely in order to hook the viewer and generate the talking points and are hard to explain based purely on the story we&#039;re told, based on the information we have to hand at this point.

Having said all that, I am capable of watching the show on a superficial level without needing every little detail tied up, and on that basis, I thought it was a very enjoyable episode, a good two-parter, and perhaps his best season-ender of the lot.

Rose - I actually liked how that was resolved.  I thought it was neat (some think too neat).  Yes, Ten II is not The Doctor but if she loves The Doctor romantically then he has nothing for her as we saw - he wouldn&#039;t open himself to that with her.  Ten II would.  He could be what she needed him to be.  The Doctor who could love her and who would never leave her because he would grow old with her and share a normal life.  Given the plot strands left in play at the end of Season 2, I thought this tied it all up rather well.  She&#039;s back in the parallel world, but this time she has him with her always.  Rose wins at life.

Donna&#039;s ending was a tragedy.  She loses what she became as a result of being with him.  She goes back to being &quot;just a temp&quot;, with no realisation of what more she could have been, what more she once was.

And yet, I don&#039;t believe we have seen the last of Miss Noble.  There&#039;s more going on there I think.  The reason she was attacked in Turn Left still isn&#039;t clear (though I acknowledge it may never be clearer).  And that ring on her finger.  There&#039;s something going on there obviously - why else would they stick it in our faces and make it twinkle.  No, no, we leave knowing the tragedy of Miss Donna Noble but with the strong suspicion that more is to come.

And next time Cybermen.  Again.  Hopefully better this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the implication and it was pretty much said, that Dalek Caan was manipulating the timelines to converge around Donna since birth.  </p>
<p>The attack on her in Turn Left &#8211; either we&#8217;re meant to assume that was also Dalek Caan&#8217;s orchestration with the intention of bringing everyone into play as he ended up doing (don&#8217;t ask me why though, it really doesn&#8217;t make sense), or there&#8217;s another reason for that, which will become clearer in the future (after all, that attack on her had the intended outcome of undoing Dalek Caan&#8217;s plan and ensuring she and the Doctor never met so would not fulfil prophecy).</p>
<p>Rose&#8217;s extra knowledge &#8211; well we&#8217;re supposed to think she could suddenly dimensional jump again because of the reality bomb because barriers were breaking down in universes where time was running ahead of ours, and hers runs ahead of ours so she also knows enough to manipulate Donna back onto the correct path in Turn Left.   Let&#8217;s just say some of her knowledge and appearances are convenient.  Let&#8217;s also say that it&#8217;s&#8230;surprising&#8230;that she didn&#8217;t just go into the parallel world in Ep1, lock onto the Tardis thanks to Control (as she did in Ep12), and meet the Doctor and explain it all then.  Of course, this would lead to the infamous &#8220;short season&#8221; syndrome.</p>
<p>Russell T Davies&#8217;s writing and plot construction is often superficially clever, but when you dig a little deeper starts to look a but less clever and rather full of convenient coincidence and unexplained events.  It starts to look like some things happen purely in order to hook the viewer and generate the talking points and are hard to explain based purely on the story we&#8217;re told, based on the information we have to hand at this point.</p>
<p>Having said all that, I am capable of watching the show on a superficial level without needing every little detail tied up, and on that basis, I thought it was a very enjoyable episode, a good two-parter, and perhaps his best season-ender of the lot.</p>
<p>Rose &#8211; I actually liked how that was resolved.  I thought it was neat (some think too neat).  Yes, Ten II is not The Doctor but if she loves The Doctor romantically then he has nothing for her as we saw &#8211; he wouldn&#8217;t open himself to that with her.  Ten II would.  He could be what she needed him to be.  The Doctor who could love her and who would never leave her because he would grow old with her and share a normal life.  Given the plot strands left in play at the end of Season 2, I thought this tied it all up rather well.  She&#8217;s back in the parallel world, but this time she has him with her always.  Rose wins at life.</p>
<p>Donna&#8217;s ending was a tragedy.  She loses what she became as a result of being with him.  She goes back to being &#8220;just a temp&#8221;, with no realisation of what more she could have been, what more she once was.</p>
<p>And yet, I don&#8217;t believe we have seen the last of Miss Noble.  There&#8217;s more going on there I think.  The reason she was attacked in Turn Left still isn&#8217;t clear (though I acknowledge it may never be clearer).  And that ring on her finger.  There&#8217;s something going on there obviously &#8211; why else would they stick it in our faces and make it twinkle.  No, no, we leave knowing the tragedy of Miss Donna Noble but with the strong suspicion that more is to come.</p>
<p>And next time Cybermen.  Again.  Hopefully better this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Descartes</title>
		<link>http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/doctor-who-413-spoilers-r-us/#comment-736</link>
		<dc:creator>Descartes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 02:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmodaddy.wordpress.com/?p=312#comment-736</guid>
		<description>Well, even if there are solid endings-this was a really great episode.  I loved all the little tie-ins, though to be honest I didn&#039;t remember who most of the people who died for The Doctor were.  This was great fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, even if there are solid endings-this was a really great episode.  I loved all the little tie-ins, though to be honest I didn&#8217;t remember who most of the people who died for The Doctor were.  This was great fun.</p>
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